Growing up, Steve de Laveaga loved playing basketball. As a high school senior, he attended basketball camps at Cal Lutheran. Due to his athletic talent, he was offered a full academic scholarship and decided to take up Communications.
Through this course, he discovered that the key to creating great influence and wealth in any field is the ability to communicate your vision and passion to your network. As as he got older, he has made it his mission to make people’s lives better through his positive influence.
For almost a decade, Steve was the SVP and National Sales Manager for Fidelity National Title Group, encompassing multiple Divisions and overseeing 3,100 Sales Executives, and assisting over 200 sales managers across the US. Here, he assisted their partners and stakeholders in growing their business and bringing value to real estate companies.
Today, Steve is the Founder and CEO at Real Intelligent Sales Engagement (R.I.S.E.). Their main goal is to be the best business-to-business facilitator with clients and prospects in the real estate space. They also work with top producing teams and focus on helping agents develop into “sales savants” and be in their company’s top 10%.
Top Takeaways:
03:06 Why Steve has chosen to work with elite teams
09:54 How Steve came up with R.I.S.E
11:23 The 3 key things a team must have to achieve more closings
12:54 The value of follow-up
14:23 Why more agents don’t always mean more closings
15:42 Why you need to be accountable to the process and business of real estate
21:34 Where Steve sees the real estate industry ending up in the next 3-5 years
23:27 What Zillow and Open Door haven't figured out yet
24:28 What will happen if Google or Facebook goes into real estate?
27:11 Why you need to watch out for Keller Williams
36:38 What Steve loves about Sisu dashboards
42:38 Steve’s vision for consumer experience
46:08 What is Steve’s most important piece of advice?
To get a hold of Steve, you may visit https://salesisacareer.com/
Podcast Transcript:
Brian Charlesworth 0:34
Alright, Hello, everyone. And welcome back to the Grit podcast. I'm Brian Charlesworth. I'm the founder of Sisu and the host of the show. And today, I think I've been trying to get Steve on here for a few months now. So I have Steve de Laveaga with me. And, you know, most people I don't think know how to pronounce your last name, Steve. So I'm going to say that again, de Laveaga, I had to ask, you know how to pronounce it. So
Steve de Laveaga 0:59
That's especially very good.
Brian Charlesworth 1:02
So Steve has a phenomenal background. He's been a national sales manager over at Fidelity Title for at FNF for about a decade, I believe. And now Steve created a company called RISE in the real estate industry, which is really doing real estate consulting, which stands for Real Intelligence Sells Engagement. And, you know, I just geez, I think I've met you probably six months ago. Now, Steve, and one of the things that impresses me most is that you guys, you really work with all the top teams, right? I mean, you have a way of attracting those Top Producing teams. And I have a lot of respect for that. That's something that you know, there's a reason these guys are attracted to you. So I've done a little research, I've talked to some of the people at Fidelity, everyone at Fidelity, I think I think that you have a very good reputation there. Everyone seems to love you. But the thing I hear most about you is that you are a dealmaker. So anyway, I'm going to turn it over to you. I'm sure I've missed a lot, Steve, maybe you can give us a little bit more about your background.
Steve de Laveaga 2:09
I'll tell you sure Brian had to be here and good color actually, was very good color. And, you know, I love my time enough. And I love the people. Most of all, I got the great privilege to work at the executive level with Randy Clark, our CEO, Roger Jukes, Ray, Marine JJ, our guys that lived up top, I also got to play every day in the field. So the bridge between Wall Street and Main Street was a little bit of my role, and I loved the job. But I was also traveled out, I was also being honest, when you get that big FNF doing 43% of everything that happens in America. Yeah, you've got to be a little bit on defense, you've got to be a little bit more of a ship's captain less than a boat builder. And the truth was, I am very much, I like to build, I want to be on offense, I don't want to be on defense. And so starting my own firm allowed me to be aggressive in the spaces that I thought were important. And you kind of alluded to it. Number one, I think real estate, it's a 955 deal. The elite teams in this space, are growing at the fastest rate TVs have ever grown in the history of the real estate space. They're getting bigger than ever before they're being run like businesses. So for our firm and myself, that's where I'm most comfortable playing. I'm not good with single agents or new agents. It's not something we work with. That's something I have a passion for. There's nothing wrong with it. It's a lot of great single agents out there. But the truth is that job is getting harder, it's going to continue to get harder, because of the amount of money, business acumen, systems, models, tactics, and strategies being used by elite teams. That is a true business and you and I, your software Sisu
Brian Charlesworth 3:53
It's true unfair advantage there, right I mean, these teams, total unfair advantage over a single agent, it's been more and more difficult for them to compete. See one thing I want to point out before we dive into you as the National Sales Manager at Fidelity, I don't think people understand what that means. I think a lot of people think of that as Okay, we're selling title. But as I have learned more about Fidelity and we are actually are in a working relationship with them testing some things right now. As I've learned about the way their sales team runs, they are pretty much consultants to the real estate industry, consulting and advising them even around technology things such Real Geeks, Skyslope, right, so, so much so FNF bought those three companies so they can go out and share that with the real estate world because wanting to add value to the real estate world. So you don't come like this is not something new to you bringing value to real estate companies. You've been doing it for the last decade.
Steve de Laveaga 5:00
I had the great privilege of 3600 sales executives dotted line up to me 210 sales managers 165,000 resale transactions a month. And we were very much about how could we add value where we could save our realtor partner time, save the money or generate new business. If it didn't touch one of those three things, we didn't deal with it. And I think you know, one of the great things about that is you learn how to help people save time, save money and grow. And hence the name of the podcast behind because if your growth is attractive, people are attracted to growth, it creates expansion, it creates new networks, it creates more people wanting to be recruited to your network, all growth is the whole piece. When you stop wanting to grow, all of a sudden, now everything gets tougher for you in your business. Real estate is binary, Brian, there is no staying in place. Either you are moving backward, or you're moving forward. So for my world, I made sure that on the sales side, we were always thinking about how would you acquire a better customer base? How would you acquire or help organically grow your current customer base, but it was always about growth. And the great thing about what we do with RISE is 511 teams, 23 markets 41 high-end boutiques, what I call purchase lender partners, six best in class technology seems to be one of them. We only find the best in class in every market. And that's what we focus on real estate lending, title, tech, that's it, we don't want to play with the 1000s of groups that quite frankly, have no chance of winning the race. We're very focused on the best and the best, you know, there's a big gap. And unfortunately, especially in real estate, you get a you know, you spend four days taking a test, you get a C minus and you expect to make $100,000 it's not that easy. And the reality is, our bigger teams, as you know, are getting bigger, and they're getting better. Yeah, for me, you know, I just wasn't keen to keep doing I love F and F but they got to be on defense. Sometimes they can't talk in some place like California, you can't talk about tech, or consult or those things because that's not title insurance. You're only allowed to speak on actual title insurance, as you know, that's not really sexy to anybody. Yeah.
Brian Charlesworth 7:19
Yeah. I mean, what you're saying Steve just rings a bell, like these teams, the power that they have right now. I mean, I remember five, six years ago, going to a bunch of masterminds with what then were the top teams. And they were all talking about, you know, doing getting to 100 million in closed volume. That's all news guys like there are. So I know on Sisu, we have hundreds of teams doing over 100 million in volume, like they're long past that we have a team doing 2.5 billion in sales, which is just amazing. So you talk about just how large these are. And it's and just all the systems are using it is such an unfair advantage. I do want to go back to this though. Steve, you mentioned in real estate, if we're you know, if we're not going forward, we're going backwards. If we're not growing, then we're not happy, all these things. I love the way you were saying that the whole time you were saying it, I was like this is absolute truth for life as well. Not just for real estate, but for life. Right? I mean, if you're not growing, you're not happy.
Steve de Laveaga 8:29
Well, I think, again, we look at you know, you look at all these eXp real even Keller Williams now with the expansion, they look for influence, but then people will join things and think they're going to be influential Brian, but then their business shrinks, because they focus now on being recruiters or whatever. The truth is, the attractive part of the business is your real estate production growth. When that grows, everything else gets better. So every decision I make in RISE, I asked people, are you trying to be a boat builder or a ship's captain, I have no interest in working with ships captains. You want to maintain Stay where you are staked the status quo. I am not your guy. And I don't want to have those people in my boat. I don't want to have those people as my customers. I don't have those people in my network. I want people that are like, we're trying to break the boat. We're trying to go as fast as we can go. It's all offense to you. How do we do that? Those are the partners that we choose to partner with. And that's a fun ride. Because every day you get up, you're like, we got to go this way, right? ships go in North come with us or throw a rock at it either way it's going and that kind of mentality mindset creates attraction. We've grown 1100% in the last nine months. It's because the people around us are like, Hey, you should get on this thing. You should get on this thing. You should get on this thing. And now that's what happens when you grow.
Brian Charlesworth 9:52
Yes. So tell me how did you come up with RISE? I mean, it's how I mean you guys are new to this space. And just me taking off. So tell us more about how did this come about?
Steve de Laveaga 10:05
Well, you made a good point earlier at Fidelity, I had a national mastermind with 250 of the biggest teams in America, we were always consulting on the b2b piece, I believe that is the future of ancillary business period. And then when I decided to go on my own FNF, and I worked out a strategic exit agreement where everybody was safe, and no one got hurt. And it allowed me to get some runway to build into what I wanted, which was, how do I take this the best operators in every market? So we take Phoenix or Utah, we say, Okay, I want 20 of the best teams in the whole market. Then I went to lead providers, realtor.com, realty.com, Ojo labs, or voto, prime seller leads, prime St., Agent finder and I said, Hey, I have this great group of teams. Give me the lead, you're giving these other agents, and my teams will close, the more now in the beginning, it was a bet. I hoped it would work. But I wasn't sure. It turns out, we're closing at about a 4.8 times better rate than the average agent network. We're the largest closing network partner for realtor.com, realty.com, and dojo labs in the United States with only 511 teams. These are teams,
Brian Charlesworth 11:19
I need to know why, why your team?
Steve de Laveaga 11:20
Three simple things. Number one, you have to have accountability to speed. Because all of the leads that consumer thinks just like they do about Uber, about Amazon, about whatever, right? It doesn't matter. So when a lead comes in, if you don't have a team of speed, not everybody should be on every lead. You've got teams of 510 1520. But if you say yes, I can take a lead the speed to that lead 78% of time, they talked to the first person that answers the phone and talks to speed first number two, accountability. Every Friday, our teams hold huddles with the scorecard that we give them that tells them whether they are getting an A, a C, or an F, but there is no hiding. You're either green, yellow, or red. But you're never ever. I don't know what I'm doing. I think I'm okay. I'm not sure. No one does that.
Brian Charlesworth 12:13
So B's don't exist with you. You're either well, D or an F.
Steve de Laveaga 12:18
Well, here's what happens. If you're a C, you better be trying to be in it. Yeah. And if you're an F, you are auditioning to go waste someone else's time, money, and coaching platform because you can't stay on ours. And if you're in, you're like, how many A's are there better than me? The key is always better. Right? So speed, accountability, and then a willingness to learn. Remember, all of these lead platforms are the same. They're all building towards that Amazon uber model of consumer experience, consumer inquiry, speed, communication, rapport answer, then follow up. The fortunes in the follow-up in this business always. So we have that data science taught that algorithm taught our agents that get it go all I get it now. And then they pour into it. That's the key.
Brian Charlesworth 13:07
Okay, so you have these relationships with these? Obviously, these are the power lead providers in the industry, at least many of them. Tell me more about that. How does that work? If I'm a team owner, and I want to work with you, what's the benefit of working with you?
Steve de Laveaga 13:23
So I explained to them that I went to all of the large open ecosystems, which is what I named Realty, realtor, etc. That kind of thing, right? I went to them and said, Hey, I'm going to provide the best platform for these people to close your leads. Remember, they only get paid now Brian on what they close, right? realtor.com. They all go into that model of 35%. And they used to go to the broker Brian and say, I'm going to go to the broker, the broker says, great, I got five, he give me two, he picks the agents on a 50-50 split. You aren't very good, who don't have a system a model or a team? Well, I said, hold on, go to my network. I've got 25 of the biggest teams in the state of Arizona, who will attack your leads with the velocity and international this you've not seen? Turns out I was right, because our teams are the best. So now the lead providers go, Hey, Steve, who do you have in Texas? Who do you have in Utah? And I'm like, Well, I got Spring Bengtzen. She's amazing. Well, we and then the Springs, like I'll take as many leads as you can bring me. Now all of a sudden, they're figuring out man, then it's not more agents means more closings, the better the agent, the better the closing number, you got to go vertical, not wide. So now, you guys and you see it, it's the suit, your agents can handle more leads, because they have systems models, accountability, tracking, shoot, they're like, Hey, bring as many as you want. I got a whole system. I can manage it for you. And that is for me what I've sold my lead providers on and now they're addicted to it. I'm on the board for realtor.com. I'm on the board for Ojo. I'm not part of what I call the lead discussion to say this is how we have to do it to get more closings. And the scores and the results are on the board. They're not static. They're not maybe they're facts. And the truth is RISE, teaches the data science and algorithm and then brings the relationship to bear that you do it. And we also a public scoreboard, Brian, and you live in this to Sisu is this. A public school board means there's no hiding, you know what our conversation is? Brian, you're a B, you need to be an A, these are the three things you don't do well, it's all right here in black and white. There's a problem let me know. We'll talk next week, these three things got to be better. Great questions. Well, instead of how you doing, Brian, is everything. Okay? All the leads suck. I'm sorry, wow, this is none of that. But that doesn't help anybody. Right? Be accountable to the process and business of real estate, and real estate, what's been hurt. It had a lack of accountability for years now. Things like Sisu, CRMs, this new, what I call Uber Amazon model of how the consumer wants to be engaged. It's complete accountability, and you got to be in on it.
Brian Charlesworth 16:02
Yes. Okay. So one of the things you talked about is these lead providers all moving to the 35%. I remember when a referral fee was 25%. And I think it still is among agents. But if you want to play with these big boys, you're going to give them 35%. So, you know, it's interesting, they're actually becoming some of the largest brokerages in the country very quickly by doing this. So I think that all started my recollection is and you can correct me if I'm wrong. Offcity kind of started that. And when realtor.com but Opcity, they adopted that model. I now see Zillow moving to that model is realty.com moving to that model as well?
Steve de Laveaga 16:47
Now yet, and I think with you hit on the head, Zillow is already there. Ben Rubenstein, the founder of Opcity who's now the CRO of realtor.com that are passionate about this. And if you saw the earnings report that came out realtor.com beat Zillow in terms of growth 25% to 4%. So that model is working. And they again, the difference is Zillow is a closed ecosystem. They're a broker. They've got title and mortgage and things they're kind of trying to do their own closed ecosystem, then realtor.com, which is a groups I work with are open ecosystems and that, hey, here are the leads, I'll take the best agent regardless of brokerage, I'll take the best lender regardless of I'll take the best title company, they're looking for that open best in class ecosystem, which makes sense. I do think Brian in the future 50% of a good team or agents business will be referral partner-based. Look at what rocket Holmes A Rocket Mortgage is doing. Every major lender USAA card is realtor.com, Zillow. Now watch, Amazon now with Realogy has a program and there it's gonna. And they'll evolve out of Realogy as my guest and move into more of a national open ecosystem best in class partnership, but they've got the consumer and they're going to charge for it. But that's okay. Because you're only paying for success. Right? You're paying for success. Now. You know, what's funny And I think that's something that so many people push back on and fight against. But, I mean, the reality is, like, if you need to spend $30,000 a month to generate the leads, and you no longer need to do that, because you're giving them a split. There's nothing wrong with that, right? I mean, you're growing at a rate you've never been able to grow, which you've emphasized so much. You're growing at a rate that you would never been able to grow. I mean, these teams now they're doing a billion dollars in volume. Again, the mark used to be 100 million, the mark is now billion, right? Everyone has a billion so that just keeps moving up. And it's because of the systems you're talking about the leads that you know everything like that. And remember this to Brian, these are not like a foreign Philly, they're not a Google PPC. These are a live consumer on the phone being warm transferred live with the ISA to the agent. The future is going to be Uber. I'm on the phone. I'd like to talk to a realtor. Yes, ma'am. Our top partner is Oh, Spring Bengtzen out of Utah click connects it to Spring and they're talking within seconds. If you're not available that way, it'll say Spring is not available. Go to Jerry, Jerry's not available. Go to Tina. So someone's going to be available. And there's a fee for that ISA that consumer relationship. They give spring credibility and she's talking to someone that she didn't pay for didn't source doesn't know. Now here's the great thing in RISE, 67% of my 511 teams have already gotten 100% referral from something they've closed in the program. So once I make that customer mine I put them in my CRM, I use my Sisu, I do my thing. Now I'm gonna make that customer Oh, you love Utah. It's awesome. Yeah, we do to your parents. About coming, can I help them? Now all of a sudden, you're doing your job as a realtor by having a great consumer experience building rapport, and then asking for the referral. Well, that's what's happening. So now your cost to acquire those other customers is zero because you did a good job with that one.
Brian Charlesworth 20:15
Yeah, exactly. Okay. So anything else before we move forward? Steve, anything else that you would like to share regarding RISE and what you guys are doing there?
Steve de Laveaga 20:26
No, I think it's a very, it's a great membership as exclusive membership, we only want to work with the best in class. And I'm proud to say that we have the number one elite team network in the United States. And we've been doing this for under two years. So if you want to be great, you want to be part of our mastermind series you want to be, understand our algorithm and coaching sciences. It's 300 bucks a month, I give you 100% money-back guarantee. And we don't write to me, check. So love to have you.
Brian Charlesworth 20:53
Yeah. And that's how we came across each other because we also work with top teams, and we have a lot of overlap in our business. All right, well, let's talk about the crystal ball. Because you mentioned this to me before we got started today. And I'd love to get your thoughts on where this industry is going. And when I say this industry, this industry is so much more than just real estate, right? You come from the title world, you just mentioned the mortgage world, you know, we've got all these things happening. You're talking about Uber and this client experience that's changing. And that's where I personally think the biggest change is happening is what is going to be that client experience. But I'd love to get your thoughts on what changes are happening. And where you see us ending up in the next, you know, three to five years.
Steve de Laveaga 21:42
Well, let's talk a little about what you just outlined, which is important, I believe, over the next 12 to 24 months, you're gonna see a huge influx of the most influential teams, owning businesses that are core and ancillary to real estate, title, mortgage insurance, Home Services, you're gonna see platforms, where the elite teams are owners of these businesses. And that revenue from that ownership of ancillary will be more or more significant than anything else they're doing in their day-to-day business, they still got to have their hub or heartbeat, which is their real estate business. But they don't have to have more time, or more expense to now be an owner in a title insurance, business and drive business and title just like you did. Same thing in the mortgage. Same thing in insurance. Same thing at home warranty. Now, you've got four lines of business that just on your building rapport trust a recommendation, hey, listen, we should I really love this lender. I'm partners with them as well. While we give them a look, they do a great race, they take care of people Oh, this tell I've counted on the escrow officer for years. They're great. We love them. Oh, we've got you know, this, your handyman. This is your guy jam. He's amazing. He does all my house. People want that, Brian, they don't want to go. You want to say you're looking at a mortgage, you know what happens to your phone, to your computer, you get bombarded with people. There, everybody's got a rate or a thing or there's I just want to know, who can I trust and who's good. And when I get that from my realtor, who I'm already trusting who have already in business with who I already know, look at what the builders have done there, their capture rates on title and mortgage is north of 80%. Right now, Zillow and open door, haven't figured this out yet. Because as much as I respect them as businesses, they don't understand it's about the people. No model is irrelevant. And secondary. It's about the people. If you get great people involved in your ancillary, you can have one of the greatest platforms ever. But without the people, if the consumer has a bad title experience or a bad mortgage experience, they blame you the realtor. That's the fact. So you're gonna see people have influenced, getting paid, and having ownership in all of the ancillary. And that's gonna be the fastest growing trend, starting January of 2022 that you're gonna see across the US. Number two, I think you're going to see really big players get in real estate, Amazon, Facebook, Google get in the business of real estate differently than they are now. And that experience is gonna map and you may even see groups like Netflix and Uber. Go ahead and give a shot at being in real estate.
Brian Charlesworth 24:26
Yeah. So why do you think everyone's attracted to real estate? I mean, you look on Facebook and Google getting into real estate and you think, why real estate but you look at what companies like Zillow and realtor.com have done and like you said, these guys, these guys have access to more consumers than anybody else, right. I mean, I know in my business you just mentioned to you know, the only place where we spend money marketing is Facebook and Google. Right. So I mean, they really dominate that world. So if they chose to compete with others doing marketing in that space, it's gonna be real interesting thing to see how that plays out.
Steve de Laveaga 25:18
You're, see there's the reality, Zillow and realtor.com are babies are specs, compared to Google, Facebook, Amazon, right? They'll just get acquired into one of them, who wants the platform, but their consumer reach is so much more. So the question becomes, okay, now we know this, we give the consumer a faster experience. We give them more consistent one, we give them one that is built around best in class, if that can happen. And then I go to Amazon, who has the consumer, they're not debating, they have the consumer, Facebook has the consumer. But now I put a real estate button on there. And I say search, find our preferred Facebook VIP Team. And you know, Scottsdale Arizona in Gilbert, Arizona. When that happens, you're gonna see the world shift again. And the truth is, you can say what you people like, oh, Uber doesn't make any money. Uber has changed forever. the transportation industry changed forever. Tesla has changed forever the automobile industry. Yes, period. Right. Here are my buddies in a Brian. It's a $10 trillion vertical market that is still disjointed, confusing and frustrating. Yes, still, to this day. It's still all this money has tried to get in it in the last two years. And is it more confusing or less, it's more confused. But you're seeing some trends, speed, national networks of teams, you must have systems and models behind you. You must have scripting and coaching behind you. But it's still confusing because it's done differently. You could take C21 or eXp or Real or Keller Williams, and everybody does it differently every market. There's no consistent consumer experience. Well, more and more groups are trying to move to that. And I'll tell you watch out for Keller Williams watch out for where they come from. And those who've been getting beat up a little bit the last year and a half. My instinct is they'll be going to be coming with some ways in which their agents can compete at a better level. It'll be fun to watch.
Brian Charlesworth 27:24
Yeah, they're definitely going to make some waves here in the coming months, in my opinion, so great. So you know, speaking of Keller Williams, Keller Williams was really the entity due to Gary's you know, MREA book, millionaire real estate agent, I think he wrote in 2003. And that's kind of when the team came around, right? Gary taught people, you can make a million dollars, you can net a million dollars, this is how you do it. Right? And that's where it when these realtors said, Hey, you know, I don't need to sell everything myself, I can go build a business, that I can then turn around and hire someone to run. And maybe I don't net a million if I have someone running it, maybe I net half a million, but still, he's given them a path. And from that all these team owners have come in that have now like you said, they're running a business like a business, which is why you and I have like latched on and said, Hey, we want to help you be even more efficient for us. And so like, what's your opinion of that? Like, if I look at companies like compass, all their brokerages or teams, if I look at just some others, like siding, who's getting a lot of attention right now and you know, in the financial markets, you know, all their brokerages or teams, if you look at eXp and Real, they're going after team. So it's going to be interesting for me to see like, what's your thoughts on the traditional brokerage? And how do they make that migration to where they start running their business more like a team because I personally believe they have to do that to really survive. If you look at all the independent brokerages out there and we work with a lot of them. They run their business like a team.
Steve de Laveaga 29:07
Correct. And I think that's very astute. Brian what you've laid out and remember Real Estate's geography-based rather you and I both know as you go east, you still got brokers who have lots of juice who run their business as well who have made a lot of money and offer a lot of services to their agents. But as you come West, the agent dominates the influence on the broker side right. That's why you've got the realty ones and the Home Smarts and all the pain little get little models because the agent just now less, less, less, less, less. And then what you're gonna find is the brokerage that figures out how to give ancillary business revenue to the agent not at the broker level. See all these brokers miss it. They want to own the title or mortgage or insurance company and keep the money up here even though all the influence and choice is made down here. The math doesn't work. You've got to find a way to create all the ancillary and give all the profit, where the vast majority of it down here to the influencers, the brokerage that figures that out, that's where it's hard for a Compass for the public and trying to make $1. hard for Opendoors and Zillows, they're not going to give the money down there, they're going to leverage their leads to get guys to give them stuff. But the brokers have figured out, I'm going to create a platform that I can pay all of these elite teams and influential agents, an actual ownership share to be in this and deliver 95% of profit down the group that does that is the group you better watch for in the future.
Brian Charlesworth 30:36
Yeah, it's gonna be I think, I think part of the reason they haven't figured that out, I think, to your point, there's been a maybe a misconception as far as them feeling like they actually controlled where that went because it is those that but then you have these complexities of dealing with respa, and all the guidelines to how you're going to structure that business and how you know, you can't base that business based off of percentage of revenue coming your way has to be based off of percentage ownership. And there's just so many complexities in that. So like, how do you, do you think these brokerages are going to be able to figure that out?
Steve de Laveaga 31:15
I do think someone will figure it out. And I think like you say it's an ownership stake, based on two or three-year production levels, right. And you say I'm willing to bet on you at this level. And you can assess that stake annually, or maybe semi-annually. But that's it. And at the end of the day, those are the ones that are going to work. Because you know, what people don't understand is, I know, when I was at Fidelity, I'll fight for that 100% of title money, right? our borders, companies are fighting, but they're also a little scared because they all can feel the shift. And there are markets where the JV model has gotten very popular and very successful. And once that cats out of the bag, there's no putting it back, it only will get bigger. Just like you know this like everyone's when CRM was like a company know what it meant five years ago in real estate.
Brian Charlesworth 32:05
Yeah,
Steve de Laveaga 32:06
What's that? Why do I need that? But I use Outlook, I use my phone. That's what people would say back.
Brian Charlesworth 32:12
Yeah. And still to this day, a CRM in real estate is much different than a CRM, you know, in a software business, right? Like, oh, yeah, the things that CRM does in real estate is your IDs website, right? It's the place where people can come and browse and view the MLS, and you're the provider, and you're their access to the MLS and now they're registering on your site, so you can follow up with them, and they become a lead and now your drip campaign and all that kind of stuff. Right? So anyway, it's really interesting, you just hit on something, Steve that I would love to drill down in further. And that's compensation, like people have been fighting for the last 10 years, I think, to say, you know what, the realtors charging too much I mean, the real estate agent has been attacked, there's no doubt they've been under attack. And that's created a lot of fear. And a lot of people thought we're going to eliminate the agent. A lot of people came into this business with the focus to eliminate the agent, you said it's a people business, the agent is not going away. I think the companies that came in with that understanding, for the most part, have realized that they need the agent. So they're either partnering with the real estate teams like you and I are right, or they're not partnering with the solo agents. They're not partnering with the brokerages. They're partnering with the teams or the brokerages that run like a team. And now you have like you mentioned mortgage, I mean, mortgage hasn't really come under attack for those bits that they're charging, right. But what's going to happen like it's gonna be interesting. I mean, there's been an attack, I think a lot of people have said, Hey, the realtor is gonna end up working on salary. Well, I think the low producing realtors are working on salary for some of those companies who have tried to eliminate them. But it's actually made some of these higher producers and business-minded people accelerate even faster. So like, what's your vision of real estate mortgage title? How those fees change over the next five years?
Steve de Laveaga 34:18
Well, mortgage got their come up after the 2008- 2009 debacle, right? You have to be licensed. Now you have to be, you know, training classes, you have to be transparent, you have to show what the money is, so that they got kind of their cleansing then the largest 40 to 50% of the cost of a real estate transaction is in the realtor commission. That's why people attacked it. Now. Price is only an issue in the absence of value. The realtors that explain the value to them. What is it? What is it worth for my years of experience my knowledge by help you buy a property right always it always makes me crazy Brian, I had a friend who was getting knee surgery. Little meniscus tears nothing big out for a week. swauk it after that, he interviewed five Doctors for a 60-minute surgery. He let his friends, sisters, cousin, sell his house who does four deals a year, there's a million for the house. I said I don't understand the mindset. See, realtors that explain you're buying me for my ability to negotiate my knowledge, my advice, not information, you can get that for free anywhere. Knowledge, ability to negotiate, and advice, okay? And then what you're going to see with these bundled services of influence that realtor says, and here's our mortgage company, because I've interviewed everybody, and they're the best. That's who I work with. And using, oh, here's our title company, they handle all of our closings. Here are the fees to the consumer, when they start doing a net sheet that shows them. Here's what it is, when you close with Spring Bengtzen, Brett Tanner, you know, Cody Gibson, it says all the consumers save 30 $200 on a $440,000 transaction that would normally cost them 38,000 now only cost them 34. Two, they're going to start showing that and then you know, people are gonna say, I don't even know what the real estate commission was, but the whole transaction cost me less. Because I got a $4,000 rebate on mortgage. No one ever asked you what the commission is for the builder, right? You go in you buy the house, they go, here's all your stuff. Here's your credit for using our lender, here's your credit for using our closing company. And we all just pay it and that's it.
Brian Charlesworth 36:30
It's really about the net, right? If I'm a seller, what am I putting out? pocket? If I'm a buyer, how am I negotiating the best price?
Steve de Laveaga 36:38
The consumers don't understand anyway? I just want to know what's my, what am I paying out here? And then show it to me like the way Sisu I love Sisu's dashboard. I can look at it in 30 seconds ago. Good. Good. Oh, read bad, good, good focus on this. I can do all that and find it's got a net sheet that said, Steve, here's your cost working with, you know Coldwell Banker does 38,000 37,000 Here's your cost at Keller, Williams 32. For for the whole thing. I go, Okay, cool. I'm saving money. That's all I need to see. I don't need to hear what this point and that point. Nope, got it. Okay, perfect. And you're gonna see that, Brian, more and more, especially as these JV platforms get bigger, you're going to see that consumer experience matter.
Brian Charlesworth 37:22
So, you know, I think it's really interesting, as you look at the way that there's so much power in the mortgage industry, and such big companies, and there's so much money in that business. I think, as I look at this, though, the key thing that you've said here that I just want to key in on a little bit, the realtor is the first one in the transaction. And they are determining, and it's going to become even more like this. They are determining who the mortgage company is going to be, who the title company is going to be. And granted, we all know with RESPA, the client needs to be able to choose, right. But they're choosing whoever that real estate team advises them they should use, right. I mean, in not all cases, but in a lot of cases. And you're right, we actually have teams looking at Sisu and saying, Oh, this is the percentage of business that's going to our preferred lenders or our preferred title company, or you know, that kind of, but how important is that to the future of the industry, because you've got a lot of play happening here with both just title companies and mortgage companies going after a lot of the same stuff. You know, wanting to be there first and mortgage has been extremely successful. Because you mentioned somebody like Rocket Mortgage, you know, Rocket Mortgage generates their own leads, because they've been primarily refi focused. But that's going to change as well as interest rates rise. So what are your thoughts around that?
Steve de Laveaga 38:57
Mortgage is racing very quickly to get to the purchase side of the transaction, it is a fool's errand to think you're going to unseat realtors for ancillary business influence, it's a fool's errand, the amount of money that would have to be spent to find a consumer portal mortgage base that people would go there first before they'd go figure out their house or up. It's It doesn't make sense, it won't work. And I've watched people try it and fail. And to your point, the best dad, it's Rocket Mortgage, and they've gotten to rocket home where they have a home portal, but let's be honest, it doesn't not never close to realtor or Zillow, or any of those. And they're smart because they can use that in a partnership play with their other realtors and their open ecosystem and they play with everybody. But the realtor is going to continue and Brian the influential ones are going to end up with more influence than they ever thought they'd have. Because if they do their research and pick the right platform, and they can say that consumer experience matters. If you're just trying to get money Mr. realtor, you'd be very good. careful about that, because to your point that gets people sued. That's a class action. That's illegal. That's non-compliant. When you pick a platform, it's already got it all. And then again, in that platform, offer choice, but also offer your knowledge and advice, hey, these are the three lenders that generally have the best situations here. I've used, you know, Phil art myself, I love Philly's amazing. Bunch of my clients are happy with them. I'm recommending Phil, but here are your three choices. Look anywhere you want to you. That's enough. That's enough to give you an entitle. And, you know, again, let's be honest, you've had them make record profits the last couple of years. And now you've got realtors that are like, well, I got news for you. I think I can do this as well. And more and more as it started the East Coast. And now it's moving west, this JV model is gonna continue to be more and more the tone for the larger you How many people do you and I know, Brian, that now have ownership in either a title or mortgage company that didn't have anything to do with that three to five years ago? I've got 50% of my teams are in some kind of equity arrangement. Now, what about you?
Brian Charlesworth 41:08
Yeah, I would say the same, probably 50%. Today. So
Steve de Laveaga 41:12
And it's, it's not going down?
Brian Charlesworth 41:14
Yeah. So. And I have that right here in my own home. Right. So yes, you do. Okay, so last question. I want to ask you about business. I know we're kind of short on time. And I have a couple personal questions for you. But you've talked a lot about this consumer experience and like Uber creating a different experience. And you brought up Tesla creating a different consumer experience. And, and now I mean, this is a big part of my vision of the future of real estate is that everyone should have this experience where they're communicating? Well, first, they have a roadmap of these are exactly the things we're going to do to close and it's in the app, they're going to download from Sisu, by the way, but then I ordered a home warranty like today, I don't even know who my home warranty company is, or I have to call my agent to get it. Why not just have it sitting there in the app so that I know how to use it. And I don't call in to have someone come to repair it without calling a home warranty company first, because that's a huge complaint happens all the time, right? Or my closing documents are just sitting in there or, you know, instead of going home with this big binder of information, but it's delivering that constant experience that just takes the whole consumer experience to the next level. And now like how do these people compete? But I mean, that's I've shared a little bit of my vision of this consumer experience. But what's what's your vision like? How does that get? How does that get standardized,
Steve de Laveaga 42:41
If you will, unfortunately, part is it won't get standardized because real estate is so fractured as you go across geographies. And the title is probably the worst one, it's not their fault is just different everywhere. Title is different in five different ways in the state of California.
Brian Charlesworth 42:57
Did you say title? Or did you say title?
Steve de Laveaga 42:59
Title. Exactly right? That's that therein lies the problem. And so you can't standardize it. Because it varies not only by state but by county and geography. What you're going to see is the elite teams are going to have a way in which they can to your point, Brian, say, hey, every year, you're gonna get, you know, a tickler about your home warranty. Every month, you're gonna get a market update of property that sold in your area like yours, you always know what your home's worth, I get a 401k statement every month, it doesn't change much. I get a stock statement every month. It doesn't change the time. But I still looked at it every month, why wouldn't I not get a home equity statement every month knowing what my home is? These are things that are going to be provided not by the mortgage company, not by the title company, but by the elite teams of real estate who understand my client for life mentalities important. There are at least as you just outlined, Brian, eight to 15 good reasons to touch a past client every year with something of value that they would want to sit, period. Yeah. So I think you're gonna see more and more people trying to create a consumer experience that gives them a, I go to Amazon, I can look at my orders for the whole lifetime of my existence there.
Why not have you want to reorder something, right? And like most people, after five years, they don't remember who their real estate agent was. And if they don't remember it five months early, don't know how to get ahold of them. Right. So why not just have that in the app that they're going to download for free? It's just their client app. Right? This is my home purchasing app. So need to become more and more You're right.
Brian Charlesworth 44:44
Yeah. Anyway, it's exciting stuff. It's gonna be fun to see the change. Steve, it's really fun to talk to you because you're a visionary. You're just like me, right? But we obviously have our own thoughts and, and our own, you know, feelings as far as the direction but I think they're very much aligned. So you've traveled all over the world. Just want to ask me a couple of personal questions. What’s your favorite place?
Steve de Laveaga 45:08
Favorite place in the world?
Brian Charlesworth 45:09
Yeah. Like, like, if I can say, Steve, you can go anywhere you want for the next month? Or where are you going to go?
Steve de Laveaga 45:16
I'd go to Noosa. In Australia, it's up above the Gold Coast. In New South Wales, in the water, it's beautiful. My wife and I vacation there right after we were married. And absolutely stunning beaches, white sand and, and easy people. And, you know, Noosa, Australia.
Brian Charlesworth 45:34
You know, I've never met a person. And I've never been to Australia. sadly enough, I've been very close, but never gotten there. I've never met a person that's been to Australia that didn't just love it. In fact, we have some friends that went there a few years ago. And they actually extended their trip from they were only going to be there for like a week. And they ended up being there three weeks because they loved it so much
Steve de Laveaga 45:55
Can't be there a week, It's too big. It's the landmass of the US with a population of Southern California. That's crazy.
Brian Charlesworth 46:01
Wow, that's amazing. All right. So I know we're short on time. The last thing I just want to ask you is like, what advice do you have for this, you know, somebody listening to this show, which, you know, it might be a team owner, it might be a solo agent might be a real estate brokerage, it might just be a business owner
Steve de Laveaga 46:21
Work very hard to never be the smartest person in the room. Have a vision that this is not going to be this good or this easy for the next three to five years. And who do you want your partners to be? Such that you can prepare for a dip in the market, not a '08-'09 but a dip 10 your partner's whether the dip because it's coming. And thirdly, strive for accountability, because the ability for your team to grow is in direct proportion to your ability to grow as a leader.
Brian Charlesworth 46:51
Okay, well said, I'm so glad I asked you that question. Alright, see, hey, it's been awesome having you here today? How can people reach you if they want to learn more about RISE? What's the best way for them to do that?
Steve de Laveaga 47:05
Yeah, just Google my name. And then you're going to see our reviews come up and all of our information, pretty public out there, you can hit with a DM, a text, an email, we, we do a pretty good job making sure we get back everybody. And again, if you're trying to be the best in class, we'd love to talk to you about it. Because we are sold out in multiple markets. We also open about 40% of our market. So we'd love to chat with you if you have an interest in being what I call a best-in-class elite team.
Brian Charlesworth 47:33
Okay, so visit Steve or Google Steve de Laveaga or RISE coaching, right
Steve de Laveaga 47:40
Rise Consulting, you do Rise Consulting it will come up.
Brian Charlesworth 47:43
Yeah. Okay. All right. Steve, thank you so much for being on the show. And thank you again for catching this week's episode. And if you haven't given us a review, please go do that. That's going to help me get more quality, industry, visionary leaders like Steve on the show. So have a great week, everyone. Steve, thank you so much.
Steve de Laveaga 48:04
Thanks, Brian. Appreciate you.