Episode 97 - GRIT The Real Estate Growth Mindset with Matt DeCoursey

Being an entrepreneur is a rewarding experience, but it also comes with many challenges. From marketing strategies, hiring the right people for the job, to finding systems and technologies to support the business’ growth, entrepreneurs today have to be resourceful to tackle these problems.

Yet some were able to overcome these challenges before and are willing to share their experience so others can learn from it.  It’s only a matter of asking the right people for advice so that you don’t have to make the same mistakes they did. 

Join Brian Charlesworth and Matt DeCoursey, CEO and Founder at Full Scale and Startup Hustle Founder and Host, as they talk about Matt’s journey from starting a business with no money or experience to launching several businesses that have generated millions of dollars in revenue.  Matt also shares how he uses his podcast as a platform to help other people find success.

Top Takeaways:

02:07 Why Matt considers himself a “recovering” serial entrepreneur

05:15 How Matt got started as an entrepreneur

11:09 Why “knowledge in” is not meant to be kept

14:31 Matt’s definition of a startup

16:20 What the book: Balance Me is all about

24:56 Matt’s take on the importance of giving

29:38 The best advice Matt has received

31:57 The difference between being genius and being crazy

34:10 Matt’s advice to anyone who wants to start their own podcast

48:37 Top reasons why people turn podcasts off

54:54 Why you should make it easy for people to help you

Get in touch with Matt DeCoursey

Full Scale

Website: https://fullscale.io/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/fullscale-io/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/fullscalekc/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/fullscalekc/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/fullscalekc?s=21

Start-Up Hustle 

Podcast: https://startuphustle.xyz/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/startup-hustle-podcast/?viewAsMember=true

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/startuphustlexyz/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/startuphustlepodcast/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/startupsxyz?s=21

Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDXy14X95mzCpGSHyDvvoVg

About the guest:

Matt DeCoursey believes that he was born to become an entrepreneur.  He used to paint address numbers on curbs in high school and do other entrepreneurial activities growing up.  Matt had a pretty successful career until he was 30 years old when he found himself unhappy because his work needed him to travel a lot, so he decided to quit his job.

Thirteen years ago, he started a concert ticket buying and selling business online.  All he had then was an extra room in his house that he could use as an office and a credit card with an $8,000 limit.  

Yet, even without money or experience, Matt understood a market inefficiency when it comes to secondary ticket sales.  He used this as an opportunity and built the business, which eventually generated $30 million in revenue over the next eight years. The business also enabled him to launch the businesses he has now.

Today, Matt is the CEO and Founder at Full Scale and GigaBook, Forbes Next 1000 Recipient,

and co-host of one of the biggest podcasts for entrepreneurs out there, Start-Up Hustle. He is also the top-selling author of “Million Dollar Bedroom” and “Balance Me,” as well as the co-author of “The Realist’s Guide to a Successful Music Career.”

Matt’s passion is to talk about entrepreneurship, business, and commerce and has made it his mission to help other entrepreneurs become better versions of themselves and guide them to find success. 

Episode transcript:

Brian Charlesworth  0:35  

Alright, hello, everyone. And welcome back to the Grit Podcast. I'm Brian Charlesworth. I'm the founder of Sisu, and your host of the show. And, you know, Sisu, had an event last week where we had 50 of our team leaders out here, and I just want to thank you all for coming. Those of you who came out had a great event. And those are something we're going to be putting on on a quarterly basis. So if you have not attended that event, yet, I've had over a dozen team leaders now tell me that is the best event they've ever been to as far as providing them with the tools they need to really build and scale their business. So that being said, I'd like to welcome Matt DeCoursey here with us today. And I just talked about scale. Matt is the founder of Full Scale, which is a company that Sisu actually uses. So excited to have Matt here with me today. Matt also has one of the biggest entrepreneur podcast shows out there called Startup hustle podcast. And it's an honor to have him here, we're gonna dig in Matt's done a lot of other things, too. He has a company called GigaBook. And if I were to describe you, Matt, based on my research, and we just met, but I would say you are a massive serial entrepreneur, that is super passionate just about giving back and helping other printers, other entrepreneurs really scale and grow their businesses, which you and I share that that's something we have in common. So really excited to spend the time together today. So what do you have to add to that, Matt? 

Matt DeCoursey  2:07  

I'm a recovering serial entrepreneur. 

Brian Charlesworth  2:10  

Okay, so what does that mean? What does that mean to be recovering? 

Matt DeCoursey  2:13  

I, so a lot of different things. So you know, I, I've been poking a lot of fun at myself on the startup hustle podcast, this year, I turned 47. So I'm like, in between, like, maybe officially calling myself old and not. And with that, I've spent a lot of time and effort stopping my inherent desire to chase shiny things. 

Brian Charlesworth  2:38  

Okay, good. 

Matt DeCoursey  2:40  

So with it with a serial entrepreneur, like I, I think in some cases that I like that. And then some cases I don't, as I've moved down the timeline in life, I'm trying to be way better at fewer things. So the serial part of entrepreneurship is, in some cases, a really good thing. And then some cases can be very, very distracting. I mean, much like, you talk about Sisu. And before we hit record, you were telling me about how quickly the company has grown, which demands more of your focus. And so sometimes the other things that we do, like you mentioned, I'm also the founder of giga book, which is an online appointment scheduling platform. And that's had to be like, back burnered, a couple of different times and a couple of different things. Because yeah, really, in the end, all you can do is all you can do. So yeah, I'm trying to not overwhelm myself anymore. And I've been guilty of that in the past. 

Brian Charlesworth  3:36  

So I would agree with that. I'm actually older than you and other than Elon Musk. I've never seen anybody who can just really build a bunch of companies successfully. And if I look back to my younger days, I mean, there were times that I had, you know, two or three companies going. And it's hard to put the proper amount of focus in any of those. And what happens is sometimes we have multiple businesses go under because we're not paying the right amount of attention. So like if if you look at Sisu today, Sisu is my full-time focus. I mean, you guys, I'm really excited today to have Matt in here, because Matt kind of brings a little bit different perspective. A lot of our listeners, all of our listeners are business builders, but a lot of our listeners are in the real estate space. I think Matt's gonna bring some things here that are kind of outside of the typical stuff you guys hear, and just really, really excited to dive in with you, Matt. So thanks for that clarity on you know, the serial entrepreneur versus an entrepreneur. And I would agree with that. I mean, that's my experience as well. Like Sisu is Sisu in this podcast are all I do. And this podcast is really to help our Sisu customers grow and scale their businesses. So how did you get started as an entrepreneur, you know, I've read some things that you started in your, you know, spare bedroom. I know my company today. And you know, I've started companies in basements and garages and my company today was started in this room I'm sitting in right now, which happens to be above my garage. But yeah, tell me more about how you, you've been an entrepreneur for a long time. So how did you go get started? Let's go back in time here. 

Matt DeCoursey  5:21  

I was born in 1975, and realized that I was an entrepreneur is how that might actually start, you know, you get, you can ask the question of are entrepreneurs born? Or are they made, I don't feel like I ever really had a choice in the matter. You know, I was always doing entrepreneurial things from the earliest times that I could remember. I think that people always identified that about me and pointed it out and did things to support it. I mean, I even went back to you know, like in high school, I started a, you know, when you have your address number painted on your curb, the little white box with the black letters, I did not have a company for four years where I did that, and we'd go out and make hundreds of dollars a day knocking on doors. So I mean, it was, you know, but it wasn't it honestly wasn't until later in life, when I did some real stuff. And I say real stuff. I think, as an entrepreneur, your goal should always be to create something that's bigger than you. And so when I say big stuff, it's like things where you have real employees and pay taxes and, you know, have a business entity and stuff like that. And you mentioned the spare bedroom, I actually wrote a book about one of these things. So I'd actually had a pretty successful professional career till I was about 30 years old. And at which point I, I just I was inherently unhappy with what I've been doing. I've been working in the music industry, but I wasn't unhappy because the industry I was happy, unhappy because I was traveling so much. So at that point, I had already dropped out of four colleges. So I figured why not try for a fifth, I applied to a top 10 Business School at the University of Indiana, I used to live in Indianapolis, at the time how to business school, the Kelley School of Business that was in the top 10. So I was like, I don't have a shot at this. But I applied and I got in. I was like, okay, so I quit my job, and went back to school as an adult. And about a year and a half into that experiment. I was running out of money. So I was really looking for something to do now this is 13 years ago at this point. So really looking for something to do, and I couldn't figure it out. And I wanted to finish school. But I ended up buying and selling some concert tickets online. And I made a couple of bucks from that. And I was like, huh, I get this. So at that point, I had just worked for Roland. That's the world's largest maker of electronic musical instruments. And I had been around music and I just really felt that I understood what people were passionate about and what they weren't. And, and I saw a gap. You know, a lot of businesses are built upon market inefficiency. And with secondary ticket sales, that's exactly what that was. So there and you if you want to get into the dirty details on that, I wrote a book called Million Dollar bedroom. So I started a business in the extra bedroom in my home, I had no money, I had no experience and and at that point, all I had was about I'd gone through a divorce the housing bubble, and then back to school. So I had a credit card with an $8,000 limit. And I didn't feel like I had a whole lot to lose. So that business generated $30 million in revenue over the next eight years and really became the springboard to everything that we do now. So that's where I hired my first employees in the Philippines. That's where I learned a lot of stuff about you know, doing business. And you know, all that's led several years later, I haven't been in the ticket business for six years now but led to what we do at full scale and Giga book and a lot of stuff. So I did it all with a lot of resolve a lot of Googling, and a lot of hustle. 

Brian Charlesworth  9:02  

Thankfully, we have Google today, right? Because Google, Google hasn't always been here. 

Matt DeCoursey  9:07  

No, and Google definitely. Yeah, I mean, Google's definitely like, I mean, well, I think that too many people say they can't do something. And don't even like go to look at how you know Yeah, I don't have any experience. No one's ever taught me I'm like, Dude mean either. I dropped out of that fifth school, by the way, when I started the other that was the million-dollar bedroom. 

Brian Charlesworth  9:30  

Yeah, it doesn't surprise me. It doesn't surprise me. So something that I skipped over in your intro, and I want to make sure we hit on this and I'm gonna go there and we're gonna come back to where we are. But this, you're a top-selling author. You mentioned the million-dollar bedroom, you also started or wrote a book, the Real Estate Guide to a successful music career, which I'm guessing comes from something you just shared with us. So what I'm gathering here is like when you have an experience that you feel others deserve to learn and grow from you write a book about it. Is that is that

Matt DeCoursey  10:05  

Or you can do a podcast. Yeah, I think that yeah, thing that's easily garnered the most hours of human attention is the startup hustle podcasts which we just had our 800th episode, which is nuts. And we'll head in 2022 we're on pace to hit one out of our 1,000th episode. But, yeah, so you mentioned like learning from Google or learning from experience, but you know, always being someone that people identified as being entrepreneurial, as I give air quotes on your audio show, by the way.

Brian Charlesworth  10:42  

That's great. 

Matt DeCoursey  10:43  

So, you know, I always had people that would offer me advice, and I was never afraid to ask for it. So I had a lot of people helped me along the way, they just identified that for some reason, there were various they either recognize something in me that reminded of themselves when they were younger, or just someone that had that was worth maybe spending a little time on. And so I really learned to appreciate and respect knowledge transfer. And you know, knowledge transfer is something that goes, it's, you know, as old as humanity, and there was always a village elder that pass things down. And I just don't think that knowledge is meant to be kept. And I think if you keep it, it's selfish. So you know, it's your so I feel this as I guess, part of where I've been, you know, poking fun of myself, for my own age, I'm like, I got a lot of catching up to do. And so I mentor a lot of people. And I think that there's a really profound impact that you have on people's lives and businesses, if you help if you can find a way there's no way to track this. There's no click-through rate, there's no closing percentage, there's none of it exists, other than knowing that you've put it out there. Because you can't track whether or not your advice help truly takes someone on a detour away from a financial pitfall or something. So, you know, there's a ton of so getting it out there that easiest platform is, you know, the cool thing about podcasting is it gave guys like you and me, an equal platform for distribution as a lot of other places. Now, you still got to promote these things and create quality content, but it is a somewhat equal playing field. So the same thing with writing books. So you know, 1.4 million new books come out every year to stack on top of the entire history of literature. So he's like, how do you get found and you put these things out there now? Yeah, the writing is so million-dollar bedroom I, which was my second book came out a few months after balance me so balanced me is a take on like how to get the most and be happy in life. I don't really believe in life balance, because some people call that a life balance book. I dispel that myth pretty early. But you know how to find the right amount of personal professional and physical activity. Mentally million dollar bedroom, I refer to as educational narrative that is literally walking through the whole process of starting that business talking about all the smart things we did and more of the dumb things we did. And then the third book was more of a passion project about the music industry. And that one was fun to write because I got actual real rock stars and that, like a member of Dave Matthews Band rode our forward and remember Huey Lewis? Huey Lewis was an art he's from art. Yeah, that's, that's our generation. And so yeah, you know, talking to people, you know, everything from American Idol winners, Grammy Award winners, famous songwriters. Like in that case, much like so many industries, you can work in the music industry and, and be the 99% of it. That's never seen. Yeah, so you know, that was my angle. I'm not a good I'm not a good musician. I just know a bunch of people that are so I wrote I wrote it from that from the startup angle, because bands are startups, too. 

Brian Charlesworth  14:00  

Oh, yeah. So many, so many of them who are successful now have also you talked about as having this equal medium where we can share our podcast? Well, so many of them have shared their music now because they have this medium. I mean, even if you look at people like Justin Bieber, right, he started by sharing his music online. No, may have never had it up. 

Matt DeCoursey  14:22  

You can go viral. You can go viral, and you can do a lot of stuff and like Yeah, I mean, really, it's just like anything else that it's so people say well, what's a startup? A startup city business that doesn't come with an owner's manual? That's my definition of it. So like, I mean, that can Sisu didn't come with one. 

Brian Charlesworth  14:40  

Any business it doesn't come with an owner's manual. I love it. 

Matt DeCoursey  14:43  

Well, that's the truth because it doesn't. You get some of it. You get some of it. Some of its inherent but it doesn't come with it. Your business doesn't come with it with a helpline or an owner's manual your startup. Yeah, you know, if you were to buy a franchise, both of those come with an owner's manual or that comes with both an owner's manual and a helpline. But you have to figure the rest of it out, you know, 

Brian Charlesworth  15:07  

What I'm learning and what I continue to learn. And every business I built, I learned more. But the key thing right now is for me is staying focused on growing. So I need to be growing at a level higher than my company is growing to be able to continue to lead this company. Right. So how do you do that? Like, what's something that because this is a this is something I'm going through right now to trying to figure out like, how to get that input? How to get it from the right people? Yeah, it's a big thing, because advice is everywhere, man. Yeah, but how do you get it from the right people? And then how often? How much of your time do you spend on that? Well, I find myself speaking to a lot of entrepreneurs that have had experience building companies that are much larger than my company. I also find myself reading at least a book a week right now. And that's not been my, that's not been my history in life. I've read plenty of books, but not a book a week. So you know, it's, it's, it's been amazing. Just constantly feeling like I have knowledge now flowing in, which has been amazing for me. So I want to talk about something you talked about the book balance me. Tell me more about this book. 

Matt DeCoursey  16:23  

So balance me is my take on what it takes to have a successful life. And the main thing is, is that definition and equation is not set. It's different for all of us. It does everything from delve into like so. So much of the reason that we don't get things done in life is well, first off, it's almost always us. So on the very first page, I say, Look, if you're not willing to admit that you are likely your biggest problem, just put the book back, because I'm not going to be able to help you. And that's true. So it's true. Yeah, yeah. And so and the thing is, is we really are, people in general, are very much their own biggest obstacle. Yeah, I mean, there are songs have been written about this. And so this isn't, this isn't a secret, you know, but it admitting that you're the gateway to all of your yeses and noes in life is an important thing. And then understanding like, if you want to actually change, you have to have that strong desire to change. And that change itself doesn't isn't permanent. It requires constant construction and reconstruction and revisiting as far as what you need. So the whole idea of the book is, it's actually what I do is if those of you listening want to try something, grab a piece of paper, because this is a really easy exercise, draw two lines down a piece of paper, and write personal, professional and physical at the top, and you have 100% of your own effort. So where does your effort go? It goes into one of those three categories. And then you know what, Brian, you get these people, they're like, Yeah, I've given speeches on this, they're like, I give 150%. Okay, not, in this case, you don't get that this time guy, you get 100% of your own real effort. So you ask people to put that in, you know, that it's like this amount of my time goes to personal stuffs to personal things that aren't work. And that aren't exercise or like health, okay? professionals work. So like all of it, any of it. And then physical is actual, the amount of time you spend, that could be everything from preparing a healthy meal. It could also be things psychological, right? Like actually like downtime. And it can be physical, it can also be personal. So anyway, you have 100% of your own effort, and you tell people to look at it, then I say, Okay, let's do this again. And I'd like you to write the same three columns, where would you really like your effort to go, they're almost never the same, like, and so the thing is, is so just through that very simple diagnosis, you can actually tell where you want to be as compared to where you're at. So you know, like, every I mean, here's the reality is, we know what we need to do, but we don't necessarily do it. But that's a very like, so you can just do some simple math and see where you're at. And then in each section of the book, I talk, there's a lot of very predictable things that really put us off course, some of it's everything from, you know, we don't get a lot of things done because of stress and anxiety that is created with our inability to communicate with other people or sometimes just like be real with ourselves. So even get into like personality types, like your personality type is what it is. And people often think and this is a leadership example in entrepreneurship. It's my job to communicate the way that my employees and team members understand things best, not forcing them to adapt to my high type A personality, right. So I actually use the DISC profile. I know a lot of people get into like these things that are like I'm an EJ and four, three, C eight, nine, I'm like, You're driven, influential, steadfast, or conscientious, the D, and the eyes are the type and the others Type V. Pretty easy to keep it straight. They're like, I'm a high type A, which means that what makes me tick, and what I care about, are inherently very different from people that are steadfast or conscientious. And like my wife is there, by the way, my wife is literally the only personality type that can put up with me. So under, but understanding that now she wants to look at she cares about things above the equal sign and the process of getting there, I'm more of a give me the bottom line, tell me where it's at, you know, the sausage was already made, that we actually get sausage, you know, so, but that's not the right way to communicate to that person. So a lot of times, we create a lot of friction and problems with ourselves, personally and professionally, by our own ability to do that. And then also having an understanding. So when you're stressed or tired, you're guaranteed to show your worst personality traits. So being able to recognize when those are, like, you know, Brian, I am not a good morning person, like I actually have like structured, so much of my day around not doing things until I've been awake for a full hour. Because I go back, and it's just a little bit of self-understanding. It's not when I function the best, it's not when I communicate the best. But there are okay soon, that's when I should spend time maybe getting some exercise, waking up doing some other things. So you know, some of that, and then then I think on a general achievement level, you know, so much of that, that book is about figuring out what you want, and you reverse engineer your success. So when it comes to goals and achievements, yeah, understanding that the most valuable things you can do at any point of your day, are things that move you towards your goals, regardless of what of which of those three pays that they're in, if you're doing stuff that doesn't move you towards your goals, that is less valuable than the things that do. So trying to have people understand that and that, you know, and then another thing, too, is also like, you know, you really just need to get a little bit better every day. And doing better than you did yesterday also prevents you from like you're getting into a rut and really falling off a cliff. So, I mean, there's a lot to it. And there is, so people have asked me with that. They said, well, what's the perfect percentage? There isn't one, it's different for everybody. Yeah, so it's about figuring out what that is for you. And it should be as simple as just writing it down on that sheet of paper. 

Brian Charlesworth  22:41  

That's, I'm I'm actually really excited to read your book balanced me, I'm uh, I'm very passionate about that. I went to all the Tony Robbins stuff about seven years ago, you know, he, as you do this balance will I don't know if you've been through that. But you put in all your different categories that you know, you have growth, contribution, relationships, business, right, you have all the same thing. You put, like, how balanced are is this wheel? And does it actually flow? And, you know, over the last five years, I've put a tremendous amount of attention into that. But certainly, you know, when you're a CEO of a company, you need to have a lot of commitment go in there. And if you want to keep your relationship alive with your spouse and family, you need to focus on that too. So it's important to schedule everything right? And but as 

Well, if you over-invest in one category, the others come to claim the balance. Yes. So the main thing with like professional people and entrepreneurs is they often put like, 90% of their effort into professional Now, here's the thing, here's the reality, if you don't pay attention to personal and professional, like, good luck. Put 90% of your focus on it if you're going through a divorce, or if your kids are in trouble because you were non-existent. Or if you have a health incident, you know, like, Yeah, I mean, you don't have to, like train for a marathon to stay active. Yeah, I mean, some of it's just like, Yeah.

Thanks. Thanks for sharing. I mean, I would say I've learned personally that health is absolutely my number one. Because

Matt DeCoursey  24:17  

Because if it doesn't, if it's not there, you can't do anything else. 

Brian Charlesworth  24:20  

Yeah, without that I can't lead anybody without that. I can't be there for my family without that, you know, I can't have the energy or excitement or you know, even feel good enough. It's, it's everything in life without 

Matt DeCoursey  24:35  

That's usually what people leave last.

Brian Charlesworth  24:37  

It that's what most people prioritize last. So anyway, again, this has been, it's really been a fun journey for me to come to this. And, you know, what I find is if I don't keep growing, I forget these things. Right? And then you go back to old habits. So anyway, one of the things you talked about is always giving you know and you didn't talk about the fact that when you give you get an I've come to see this as kind of be like a universal law or principle that when you're giving you receive more the universe or God or whatever, you know, whatever it is to you when you're giving to others when you're contributing. You're also being blessed. How do you feel about that? That's, that's my perception. I want to get your take on that. 

Matt DeCoursey  25:29  

Well, I think that I've definitely learned, if you help everybody else get what they want, you usually get what you want. There are one little twists on it, because I believe everything you just said is true. So this is actually a Buddhist thing. And they encourage giving without expectation of return.

Brian Charlesworth  25:48  

Yes, absolutely. 

Matt DeCoursey  25:51  

So that's like the anonymous donor, not the donor that's like, Hey, look at my name over the entrance.

Brian Charlesworth  25:59  

I'm so glad you brought that up. Because it's not like the minute you give or help somebody or do whatever you do. And your purpose is that they will do something for you or that they will recognize you. It loses that point. It's at that point, it's selfish, right. It's not you're not doing it for them. And at that point, you don't get anything back. Right, because you're not there for the right reason. So I love that you brought that clarity to that. Anything else you want to add to that? Matt? 

Matt DeCoursey  26:31  

No, I think Well, I think it's important because I think that when you do stuff like that, you talk about being a leader, and entrepreneur and business, you know, your business gets big. I mean, all 250 of my employees worldwide do not have the same goals and desires and things that they want to get. So you know, sometimes that's just a matter of ASCII. And I'm not afraid to do that. Like, I mean, we even do that when we're interviewing people, like I wanted to it's part of our assessment process. It's like, what do you want? Now? What do you need later? Like, what are your goals? Like, both professionally, and it's important to, to separate those as well? Because, you know, like, I don't know, there's a lot to be asked, and a lot that can go into it. But yeah, I think overall, it's easier to rally people around you if they think that you're not just in it for what you want. 

Brian Charlesworth  27:21  

Oh, yeah, for sure. Yeah. And if and if you are in it just for you. usually don't get it right, if it's just all about you. Yep. So you were talking earlier about advice, I want to go back to this, you know, you've received advice from a lot of people. And I can tell you, every business I've started, I've received a lot of advice from a lot of people as well. And sometimes that's great advice. And usually I find that great advice comes from somebody who has built something bigger than what you are building. The free advice that you don't want, in my experience, is typically those that advice that comes from the people closest to you. That can be your parents, it could be your family, it could be your spouse, it could be other people that you talk to, you know, that are in the same line of work, but they're the people that tell you, you're crazy, you're never going to be able to do this, you know, all that. So how do you Matt go to the right people for advice.

Matt DeCoursey  28:21  

You're gonna put me on my soapbox, Brian.

Brian Charlesworth  28:23  

I need to I mean, I know you guys, I know you. I know you have things to say about all this. I like to hear. 

Matt DeCoursey  28:29  

So I get myself in trouble with this. And I'm just I'll tell you why. So as an entrepreneur, I have a very difficult time taking advice on entrepreneurship from people that have not sat in my seat. And, and I and you know what I'm not afraid to say that out there. So the problem I've got is, sometimes you create certain things like I've created this platform, this podcast that 3 million people have a download, and listen to that many times. So I often find my own comments and statements come back in certain ways. But I don't really want to come to your panel on entrepreneurship with people on it that don't haven't been entrepreneurs. So you do not have my attention. I'm sorry. Like, and you know, I see him all the time, all the time. But you don't know until you've done the same thing with parents. Like until you've had a kid I don't give advice on parenting because you don't know. Yeah, I think the best general advice that I received and Okay, so I didn't make this quote. So don't quote me on Twitter, on that. So that's how this has happened. I get quoted on not my quote. But the best advice I've ever received was several years ago, someone said to me, he said what that what's easier trying to climb to the top by yourself or asking those on top to pull you up.

And ever since that really sunk in, I spent all my time looking up, which means I didn't care about the opinions, input, and advice of people that haven't done what I've done, have an experience what I've experienced or don't have the level of expertise around things that I need help with. Instead, I look up the whole time, and I've, I've spent a lot of time y'all and hey, can I give a hand, just the people that are out there they're looking up to they don't inherently notice you until you get their attention. And you will find that those people are, if they are like you, they are almost always willing to reach down and give you a hand and pull you up a little bit. Now you can't just be dead weight, you got to still bring yourself up. But I think part of that continuing to pull others up, that want to be where you're at as a part of it too. Because if all of a sudden you're just the person that everyone's pulling up to the top, and you're not helping anyone else out. You know, when it comes to the advice like I said, it's a now that doesn't mean that I won't take advice, or I won't listen to what other people say it just doesn't have my attention at the same level. Like when it comes to entrepreneurship. Now, it might be about business, it could have an academic or someone else but I feel like entrepreneurship. And I know you get this, I know you get it because I don't ever talk to entrepreneurs that have a lifetime of experience at this stuff that don't feel the same way. 

Brian Charlesworth  31:30  

Yeah. So you know, I think I feel the same way. 

Matt DeCoursey  31:34  

And I don't want to feel I don't want to sound overly highbrow about that. Because there's a lot of things you can learn from others like, now, I've learned stuff from young, younger entrepreneurs all the time. Entrepreneurs about we're talking about entrepreneurship. So I think some of that's important, I think it's really you know, you one thing you mentioned is the so you get friends, family, you so what's the difference between being a genius and being crazy? Like you Okay, so what is it? It's all the answer is who cares? Because those are all external opinions about what you're doing. Right? So the thing is, is like it for me, if someone doesn't tell me, I'm crazy, I don't know if I have a good idea yet. Like, it's that level of like, until people aren't understanding what you're doing it and how you're doing it. You haven't really forged your way into any new area or done anything. And you know, so one of the things too, I mentioned, like, I'd be remiss if I didn't mention this as well. But so I've literally been studying in-depth, especially this last six months, what makes people do genius, thanks. And genius, there's a huge understanding, misunderstanding between the difference of talent and genius. So talent is being able to hit the target that everybody can see. A genius that's the target, no one even knew it's there. And that's a huge difference. Now, I'll tell you, for the people that do genius stuff, none of them care about the outside noise. They don't care about what they don't care about, hey, you're crazy, you'll never be able to do that. And then really, in the end, they'll call you crazy. Until they call you a genius.

Brian Charlesworth  33:17  

As you're, as you're speaking all this, I mean, I can think of so many examples, but I think the most obvious is, is really Elon Musk, right? I mean, everyone, everyone called him crazy. When he started Tesla.

Matt DeCoursey  33:28  

I'm going to move a million people to Mars

Brian Charlesworth  33:30  

The he said, I'm going to start I'm going to build a community on Mars, right? Reduce SpaceX, all of a sudden, people have called him crazy for the last 20 years, all of a sudden people believe him, right? 

Matt DeCoursey  33:41  

No, it's all the same guy. Yeah. Yeah. The none of that guy. None of that turned to back from doing any of that. So yeah, that's the key man. Like, for me, it's been drowning out the noise. So, and I and I create too much of that noise for myself. Because one thing is, if you want to create something like we did at startup hustle, a podcast and all that you got to keep in mind that you're creating a platform, quote, influence, or attention that a lot of other people want to create. And they will be the first people to throw stones at you. Yeah, like and don't like and one thing I've learned is don't ever create a podcast and expect any other form of media to give you any attention. You get

Brian Charlesworth  34:23  

I want to dive in. I want to dive in your podcast before we do that there's something else I wanted to hit on there. When I started Sisu, you know, I jumped in to help my wife grow her real estate business. I had never been in real estate, right? I'd been an entrepreneur, I'd built some software companies. I'd bought some franchise companies. And all of a sudden I come in with this whole different perspective. And the first thing when I see the vision of starting Sisu and I see this big gap in the industry of hey, why hasn't anyone done this right like this industry? He needs this. But everyone in the industry told me I was crazy. Everyone in the industry told me it was stupid. Everyone in the industry told me that people have tried this, you know, it was interesting the people from the real estate industry, or all the people who told me, you'll never be able to be successful with that, with one exception. My wife, she's from the real estate industry, and she believed in me. But anyway, I just find it interesting. The naysayers, right? Like you said, so when you have a great idea, it's most people. And it's that genius idea, people are not going to believe it's even possible for you to do it. But it's all about the execution and you believing yourself and continuing down that road. So

Matt DeCoursey  35:42  

By the way, there's a belief when it comes to like, okay, in the event that there's life everywhere, and some of it's a billion years ahead of us, the idea is that some of that technology or understanding could be so far ahead of where we're at that it just literally looks and feels like magic. So you tell yourself like, No, there's no way it's got to be something. It's got to be magic. It can't you know, cuz, right. I mean, most of the time, people just oh, well, no one could do that. It was like with Elon Musk, I mean, talking about putting a million people on Mars, and then all a sudden it's like, okay, you could probably do that. You know, so I mean, I think that's in the, in the entire history of innovation, entrepreneurship, and just all of it. There's always, I mean, the world couldn't have been round. You know, the sky wasn't this that wasn't that, you know, it's like an Intel it was so 

Brian Charlesworth  36:39  

Yeah, our viewpoints are so minuscule, right? We only see what we see. And there's so much more out there.

Matt DeCoursey  36:47  

I was, I was talking, I was talking about this the other day, I was like, Okay, so at close to 50 years old history has actually changed. Like, literally, what I was taught as a child is different than what they're teaching my children. And that's a very small amount of time considering, like all of it, so yeah who knows.

Brian Charlesworth  37:07  

Yeah. Well, it's crazy. If you think of let's just take go back to 1980. Right. So from 1980 to today, it's 40 years, right? 1980 doesn't seem that long ago. So when you and I were kids in 1980. Now go back to 1940. and think, how much does it change from 1940 to 1980? And now things are changing at such an accelerated rate because of technology. So it's like, nope, yeah. I mean, we're changing every five years. What used to take 40 years, right? Yep. So all right, well, you have this podcast, one of the top entrepreneur podcasts, congratulations, by the way, it's very cool. You're doing five episodes a week. I do one a week. So you do five episodes, and

Matt DeCoursey  38:04  

I don't personally do five. So there's more than one of us. So yeah, so I don't want to I don't want to say that's the case. Now. I've been on it, you know, we've had still haven't even counted, it's on our list of things to do. It's estimated that I have been on 600 of 800. Okay, so yeah.

Brian Charlesworth  38:24  

So but I mean, how do you do it like I'm scheduled? And I don't know, I didn't schedule it. But someone's scheduled it for me. I know, I'm scheduled to be on your podcast, but I know, it was like two months out, or three months out. So like, you guys are booking so far out? How do you? I mean, you're just booking with entrepreneurs, which, which is amazing. How do you get these people on your show? Like that's that there are so many shows that you're doing? How do you keep that vibrant and entertaining? You know, there's a talent to that.

Matt DeCoursey  39:01  

Well, yes. So there's a few things some of it's gotta be built? Well, first off, you have to be organized, and you have to be efficient. So as we as Giga buck for that, which helps us do all the booking the automation, the follow up all of that, you know, I do have a team of people, it's not just me, but we sit down and you know, prior to so we're recording this and 2022. But, you know, prior to the beginning of the year, I mean, we sit down and come up with a whole lot of topics. And we also at this point exclude a whole lot of topics, because maybe we beat that a little that drum a little too much in the past. So

Brian Charlesworth  39:40  

Or maybe times have changed, right? I mean,

Matt DeCoursey  39:43  

Right. Yeah. And we'll do that too. So sometimes you're right sometimes we haven't been talked about that for a while. Let's do a recap. So a few of the things that give us some built-in stuff so I think if you want to publish that regularly, you got to have your bell tents, so we pick a new city every month. And, and do research and decide who that city's top startups are. And then we reach out to offer those companies founders or CEOs or leaders a spot on the show. So there's that. And so that that's, you know, anywhere that's you look at so the average month, you've got anywhere from 20 to 23, weekdays. And so those are the spots you have to fill if you're going to expect 250 to a year, I believe. And then, so you got to kind of eat into that a little bit. So about a quarter of its there. And then also so my business partner full scale is that who I started startup hustle with is, we just finished a 52 part series about how to start a tech company. So some of it that's a built-in. So we know, we got to still research it and figure you know, like, we want to sound somewhat smart when we're broadcasting to the world. And then what we did it halfway through 2022 is once I realized we were building a fairly big platform, I wanted to widen the lens a little bit because Matt and I are both kind of tech-centric. And so we added two other hosts, one of one of which is a lady named Lauren Conaway, who's the founder of innovate her. So quite honestly, she handles a lot of the stuff that I am not brave enough to talk about on some days. And then we added another guy, Andrew Morgan, who is the CEO and founder of a company called Mark Knology. And Mark Knology is an Amazon brand acceleration. So they basically have to sell stuff on Amazon. So we added two really big wedges to the, to the pie, that we you know, cuz like you get so now Lauren's very well versed at, at discussing, I mean, social issues are a challenging topic, you know, like, and so some of that is, but I didn't want to avoid it. So we added more people to the lineup. And she's very well suited for that I jump in on some of that stuff. But, I mean, overall, I prefer to not talk about religion, sex, or politics, on my shows. So my shows are almost always with founders like you're gonna be on it your schedule at some point. And then, and then here's the key is if you want to keep keep the wheel to stop from stopping spinning, you got to be way out ahead of it. So you mentioned doing it in the future. And we get a lot of people that go to startup hustle dot XYZ and they apply to be on the show, we have a whole process for that for a lot of it. It's reaching out, didn't just kind of like finding the right people. But one thing I've learned is that you should never be afraid to ask because people really like talking about themselves. So it's almost always a yes.

Brian Charlesworth  42:43  

Right? Yeah, yeah, that's a great point. All right, we just have a few minutes here, man, I would love. I'd love for you to dive a little bit deeper into the podcast. And I know, this is an area that people ask you about all the time. But a lot of the people listening to this show have podcasts, sir. You know, if you're in real estate, a lot of these top real estate leaders are focused on sharing. And you know, helping others find the answers to really grow their business and instead of having to learn the hard way, right, how do you monetize on that? Like it, I have this podcast, I'm doing this podcast strictly. So that people who are growing businesses can accelerate that growth and learn from people like you that have, you know, have built several successful companies and can really make it easier for them. But I'd love to hear from you like what is the next step to take that podcast to the next level? Where where you're actually, I mean, some people, maybe their goal is to just be a podcast host, right? How do you get to that?

Matt DeCoursey  43:57  

So I gave a before the pandemic started was the last time I gave a speech to real people in public. And it was just a couple of months before that I actually hit so global entrepreneur week was here in Kansas City. And we put in I put in to record a show or to do a presentation that got sold out two times and move to a third space that finally put enough people in this in the room to you know, Beanie like, first room was false. So they put me in a bigger room, and then that got too many. And then they put us in a really big room. And I like by the time that should think made about 150 people in that room. The first thing I did was I and you know you talk about being a realist. So that's the word I use about myself. And I asked everyone in the beginning I said, who's here because they think that they want to start a podcast and have that be their job, and 80% of the room raise their hand and I was like I first saw I was not expecting that. I thought it would be more like 20% And I said well, I don't Want to burst your bubble, but that's probably not going to happen. Right. So like when you talk about monetizing it from a strictly like, Hey, I'm going to sell ads and make money from that. You got to have a lot of listeners, you got to have a lot of downloads, you gotta have a lot of plays, or you have to operate in a niche that is really, really valuable. Now fortunately for us, it started apostle, we're in that niche, it's really valuable. And we have a lot of listeners, but we went 300 shows before we ever tried to ever accept a sponsor, we weren't even, we didn't even care, you know, so you got to get ready to put the work in. Now with that. We mentioned earlier giving with no sense of return, I don't think that's the right way to go. I think you should have some of that in your thought process if you go to start a podcast. But it is fair to expect some return from what you're doing. Because you can still help that first part you can still give to people, podcasts are free. So with that, we've had a money-back guarantee on Start apostle, the whole 800 episodes. If you don't like it, we'll give you your money back. It's free. So but you can account you have to accomplish a couple of things. One, so we've accomplished a number of different things. Well, we do actually sell ads, and I'm fine telling you that we get anywhere from 20 to 30 grand a month right now. So that's turned into like a whole nother business for us. Right, wow. But we turn that around and use it to promote shop. So that you know that's gone. Well, but we didn't start doing that until about a year and a half ago, that main thing I think for most people is okay. So you can get you can learn from talking to other people. So the amount of time you get with someone, you might not even be able to get that call or that meeting or that conversation, right. And then those same people, if you so I mentioned going and finding top startups in the city and a different city every single month, and we plan that out a year and a half in advance. Those people oftentimes become our clients. Because when you like Brian, our relationship will always be different after this call. Yeah. And that's just the way it goes, Yes, know that. And you put yourself in a situation where you can say, Look, your guest has the upside of the free promotion, sometimes it's a fun conversation. And once again, people like to talk about themselves, right. So it's not that hard of an ask, or you can have it so like there's other components, but just know that you got a long climb, if you don't already have a big social media following. Like, if you don't have like 200,000 followers on Instagram or something like that. It's there's a lot of noise out there. Like, it's hard to get noticed, you're not gonna just start the podcast, but then people ask me all the time. So like, I just went through this the other day. So we have a suite at the TMobile Center, which is the arena here in town, and we use it to invite entrepreneurs, influencers and investors to just come meet each other. So we're at a show, and there was a local podcaster that that had, you know, had come in and you know, like, the questions are always same there. Like, you know, what do I need to do? How do I need to do it and all that. And I said, Look, you need to just you what a you got to keep doing it. You got to make sure your content doesn't stank. You got to make sure your audio quality doesn't stank, by the way. Right. So there's a few things there. Because that makes people don't create a whole list of reasons for people to turn yours off. Which by the way, the number one reasons for that are poor audio quality and too many ads, right, and you got to use and you have to keep grinding with it. So like, you know, so all of this put together like you got and you got to be consistent. So if you're and we were so bad at that in our first 50 episodes, like sometimes we went a month and a half and didn't publish an episode at one. And like now we're angry if something happens, and it doesn't come out at 5 am Central. Yeah, but you know, you got to set it up in a way and I also am a big believer in the I don't like interviews, you know, like we for those of you listening, Brian and I even talked about that before he hit record like hey, this is we're gonna have a conversation you see where it goes I like the free form of of having that discussion with people and understanding it but you know, all that stuff wrapped together and then you know, and honestly find some help if you can, if you can find a way to like you guys did a really great job. I got multiple reminders that kept me on track. Now I already had it in my calendar. But you know, there was a nice young man that emailed me the reminder that let me know it's like, Hey, you're on the show tomorrow. And then it was like, Hey, you're on in 30 minutes. So the thing is, is like these are all good. things and they were, you know, either either either set in a way that, you know, like was automated or someone else was doing it. So you get some help with that. And then, you know, and then the next thing is like so sorry, I took a long path to this, I get passionate about this. But so so the other podcasters will ask me, they'll say, Well, I don't feel successful. I'm like, well tell me why they're like, because I see in startup hustle chat on Facebook, that you just got your, your number 13 for all entrepreneur, I was like, I had episode one to man like, and the question is, is is people will be like, I said, Well, how many downloads? Do you know? Really? I'm on like, 100 per episode. I'm like, that's really good. They're like, it doesn't feel like it. I said if 100 people showed up tomorrow to hear what you had to say, would that be worth your time? And then they're like, oh, yeah, that would be awesome. That'd be amazing. I said, Well, what's the difference? Yeah. What's the difference? 100 people listening, when they can, how they can? Or showing up live, you weren't going to probably talk to all 100 of them in person anyway. So like, really, it's, it's back to that whole genius are crazy thing if you think you're successful you are? And if that's me, and what difference so what 100 people listening to this show, as like Realtors? Or if I'm ever lonely, I just mentioned on Facebook that I want to sell my house. And I've got 20 new friends in my messenger, asking me about it. I'm joking about that, isn't it? It's true, though, right isn't a hug or if you're alone or something else. I know that. And I really don't do that. But the main thing is, is like what can you do to get it out there and put it out there? Now here's the thing is these are digital assets. And if your show grows, and you stay consistent, people still go back at it. I almost wish they wouldn't go back to Episode One, which was terrible compared to what we do now.

Brian Charlesworth  52:00  

Well, and it was and it was a year ago or two years ago, right?

Matt DeCoursey  52:04  

Four and a half. In your case?

Brian Charlesworth  52:07  

Yes. So I mean, I'll share my story here. So I started this. I don't even know how long ago it was we do one episode a week and it was 90, something we're almost to Episode 100. So you know, I don't know, almost a year and a half ago. So far, I guess longer than that. But I remember, like the feeling of is anybody ever going to listen to this? Like, why would somebody listen to this? And then you know, and now I still don't have anywhere near the number of listeners you have, of course, but it's what I love is when I'm just out and about in public, or somebody messages me on Facebook or Instagram and they're like, hey, you know what, I was listening to your podcast, and I heard this and I really, you know, it's like changing their world. And that's why I do this. So...

Matt DeCoursey  52:59  

And that's the giving without the sense of return because you didn't do it hoping for that message. Yeah, yeah. And it's okay. It's okay to want to move your business and everything else forward. And you still get that giving thing and I get I've had, man, I've had messages from all over the world at this point. And, you know, and I always take him in. And I always say thanks, because you know that is motivating, just knowing that someone out if you think about it, humans literally have an infinite number of choices for where they can point, their attention, and their focus. So if they're paying attention to anything that you're doing, be humble about it. And just to gratitude.

Brian Charlesworth  53:40  

Yes. So the last thing I'm going to talk about here, you just talked about being humble in a, you know, you were talking earlier about advice and why, you know, you go to advise for these certain people. And for a while, you were just grinding, grinding, grinding, not going to these people above you. And I think the only thing that would stop you from going to someone up here to pull you up the mountain as you were talking about Matt, it's really ego. That's the only thing that would stop you a lot of times we let our ego get in the way like I can do this, I can do this. If somebody has been there, somebody has done it, and they're willing to give you advice. Take advantage of that. I mean, you can save yourself years by asking somebody for advice and having to learn it the hard way. So I just wanted to hit on that I meant to talk about that earlier. And

Matt DeCoursey  54:31  

At this point that would never stop me. If anything I would, I would make it I would make it obvious that I'm coming with my hat in my hands. You know, like, and they're, by the way, I'm glad you decided to bring this up again because I think that there's a very, very, very important part of all of this, and this is I see people mess this up with me a lot. You have to make it easy for people to help you. Right. So many people like you know, like I don't want to come meet you an hour away at Starbucks for a free coffee because $4 is not worth an hour or two hours of my time. Like, if you make it really easy, I have actually had someone come to my house last Friday because it was someone that I mentored before and I was like, hey, you know if, and they take my own advice, he'd heard me say that he's like, how can I make it easiest for you to help me? Okay, you can be here at 230 Tomorrow, and you got to be gone by four. Okay, I'll be there. What's your address? Oh, so like, if you make it easy for people to help you more people help you. 

Brian Charlesworth  55:36  

And he still got an hour and a half of your time. You don't very focused on 30 minutes. If you had to drive 30 minutes each direction you would have had I

Matt DeCoursey  55:45  

I wouldn't have done 30 I wouldn't have done. Yeah, but I wouldn't have done it. Because I mean, I was already feeling like, like busy, but you made it easier. For me, it makes it a lot more palatable. So if you ask someone for their help their time, their effort, their money, any of that, you know, I say things like, just tell me where I can be, how long I got. And anything else I can do to make this easy. If you tell me that I have to come at 3 am on any given day. If I want your help or input, I'm going to be there at that time.

Brian Charlesworth  56:16  

I like that you shared he asked the question, how can I make this easy? On you? Yeah, well, 

Matt DeCoursey  56:22  

He was using my own advice. I get a lot of that. And by the way, that's how I always know if someone's been listening to the podcast. Yeah. Or reading my books because they'll quote the exact part you. You get people they'll be like, I read your book. He said, really? What parts do you like? They're like, Oh, I really liked all of it. That person didn't read your book. Right? Yeah. Someone else. So they'll say that. You know, there's that part where you're telling that story about where Amex cut your credit limit and a half and you smashed your phone? After I was like, yeah, that happened. But you know, they read the book. The same thing with podcasts. So yeah, but for all make it easy. Make it easy.

Brian Charlesworth  56:58  

Are you guys all going to go back to episode number one of this startup hustle podcast? Or are you going to start right now is based on Matt's advice. He's saying start right now. But I think you're going to start and then you're going to say, You know what, I'm going to so much I'm going to go back?

Matt DeCoursey  57:13  

Well, we intentionally have, there are almost no episodes that have company names, or guest names. And so we did it on purpose when we knew we wanted to step up. So we went from like, sporadically to two days a week to three days a week to four days a week to five days a week. And there's a lot in the feed. So you know, it's like if I put your name, I put Sisu in there. And then there's very little space left for what we're going to talk about. It makes it really difficult for people to go through a long list. Yeah, it also ruins your SEO value. By the way, there's a little hint for you. Because you know, so So you look through and if you and you make it easy for people that so you can go to startup hustle, look through the feed, and you can find all kinds of topics and all kinds of things. And you know what, some of them are captivating for some listeners, and some of them will never be touched by others. It just says what it is. So we look at it as a library.

Brian Charlesworth  58:09  

Well, Matt, I could spend hours here talking to you. I've got I mean, as I'm talking to you, I just keep having things come to mind. It's like, okay, I'm asking, I want to ask him about that. But what I'm gonna do is I'm just gonna tell our listeners to go search your podcast, listen to it, if they're not already listening to it, and do exactly what you just said, find the areas that are of interest to you. Because I mean, Matt has a wealth of knowledge, which he just dropped a little clue around SEO, but Sales and Marketing and Entrepreneurship. Those are his expertise, which, you know, everybody listening to this, you guys are in a sales business. So everyone in business is in a sales business and a marketing business. So if you don't know sales and marketing, those are things you absolutely must learn. So, Matt, hey, it's been really fun just getting to know you. And, you know, I know we've worked with you for a long time. It's been primarily my business partner, Frank leading that. And anyway, excited, like you said, once I have somebody on the show, I always have a different relationship with them. And it's special. I love it. So thank you so much for being on the show today. I really, really value your time and value what you shared with us today. So thank you so much. 

Matt DeCoursey  59:22  

Thank you.