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Episode 119: What it Means to be a Team-Centric Brokerage with Ron Rocz

Some say that the traditional brokerage is no longer sufficient, as teams are becoming the new standard for success. That’s why more and more people are adopting the team model to offer more opportunities for agents both professionally and financially.

Brian Charlesworth

Brian Charlesworth

Chairman & CEO

Brian is a highly accomplished entrepreneur, business builder, and thought leader in the real estate industry. With a track record of success in software, telecommunications, and franchise businesses, Brian has a talent for identifying and realizing business opportunities. Driven by his passion for technology, Brian is dedicated to using his skills and experience to bring about positive change and improve people's lives through the advancement of technology.


While others say that brokerages are fighting back by shifting to a “teamerage” model where they are able to operate as a team while its compensation and support structure is still similar to that of a brokerage. 

And to have a better understanding of where things currently stand and how to best prepare for what lies ahead, it’s best to get valuable insights from someone who owns a brokerage and runs a team as well.

Brian Charlesworth joins Ron Rocz, Broker and Owner at RE/MAX Nexus, as Ron provides an interesting take on the real estate market both from a brokerage and a team perspective, and what people should be doing today to thrive in this market. 

Top Takeaways:

(04:08) Why every team leader should do their business planning in October
(04:48) What planning for Nexus looks like
(08:09) Why the traditional brokerage is dying
(11:21) How interest rates are impacting the market
(17:59) What are the things that one must do in this market to take market share
(20:37) What it takes to remain in the real estate game 
(21:43) Why agents should focus on bringing value to the customer
(24:04) The evolution of real estate
(26:38) Why brokerages need to become a “teamerage”
(27:03) What Nexus’ mission to innovate, inspire, and connect is all about
(29:19) What agents should be doing to thrive in this market 
(32:27) The role of a leader

Connect with Ron Rocz

Phone: 866-R-O-N-R-O-C-Z

About the guest:

Ron Rocz has been in the real estate industry since 2003 and has experienced great markets and also rough ones. And through the years, he’s developed blueprints to help guide him through challenging market situations.

In 2014, Ron earned his broker’s license ad founded RE/MAX Nexus, a team of realtors backed by Ron’s unmatched real estate experience and support structure dedicated to making everyone successful. 

Ron has consistently been in the top 1% of Realtors Nationally. He was the only agent in Michigan selected to participate in the RE/MAX University Agent Advisory Panel where he helped steer the development of training programs and initiatives that now serve the entire RE/MAX global network. Ron has also been recognized for years by Hour Detroit Business magazine as one of the top agents in the Metro Detroit area. 

Today, Ron is the Broker/Owner at RE/MAX Nexus, a full-service real estate company located in downtown Birmingham, Detroit.

Episode Transcript:

Brian Charlesworth  00:35

Alright, hello, everyone, and welcome back to the Grit Podcast. I'm Brian Charlesworth. I'm the founder of Sisu, and your host of the show. And today I'm here with Ron Rocz, who I called Ron Rocks for about the first four years that I knew him. That's R-O-C-Z pronounced "Rose". So just for you guys, you know, who know Ron, start pronouncing his name correctly, but excited to have him on the show today. I have tried to get him on a few different times. And for one reason or another, it didn't work out. And I think that was probably my fault, if I recall. But, Ron, thanks for joining me today. Ron comes to us. He owns a REMAX brokerage that I believe he started in 2014 called REMAX Nexus. He also runs a real estate team. And so he's got a really interesting take on the market from a brokerage and from a team perspective. So I'm excited to hear more about that today. Ron, anything you want to add to that before we kick things off?


Ron Rocz  01:33

No, no. I mean, I appreciate that. I appreciate the opportunity to get together. Yeah, our schedules didn't align. But they have now and thanks for letting me get back on here. And no problem with the names I say to everybody all the time, right. I've been called worse for a lot of words than Rockstar rows. And it's kind of hard to correct somebody when they say we're on rocks. We're just like, hell yeah.


Brian Charlesworth  01:53

You do rock, you do rock rock. Anyway, Ron and I have known each other. I think you've been a Sisu customer for about four years now, if I'm not mistaken.


Ron Rocz  02:01

Yeah, four years, and we've put through. I was just looking. I was that we're, I don't know, 3000 transactions pushed through your platform and, you know, paid out close to $20 million in commissions to our agents through the platform. And it's really allowed us to look at our business, you know, much more like a business when I have a quote, when someone has a question. I just I go there as my single source of information. It's been a game changer for us.


Brian Charlesworth  02:26

Yeah, that's awesome. Thanks for sharing that. So you are off site today, you have a virtual background for any of you guys are watching instead of listening. You'll see his REMAX background back there. But that is his virtual background. Ron, you are off site today why?


Ron Rocz  02:40

I'm working with a you know, a consultant coach, just business and leadership planning, as we're working on are wrapping up our goals for this year, and making sure that we have, you know, a succinct clarity on our mission and our vision and the purpose of why we exist and what we're doing and looking to close out this year at the at the best that we can and not leave anything on the table and making sure that we're maximizing what we're doing going into the next year. But I've been in real estate since 2003. So I got to see the build up to the market, and then a little bit of a fall off there. And we're in the metro Detroit market for many people that may not be aware of where we're at. And so as many people heard over the years, we've we've, we've had our highs and lows. You know, when it comes to real estate on a national level, people were talking about, you know, the downtown Detroit $500 homes, not that that's where we sell by any means. But you've been through some rough markets and some great markets. And we're just making sure that we're dusting off the blueprints that we feel like we already have copies of because we've been through in some of those challenging markets, which we think are, you know, the interest rates have obviously turn the tables on the a lot of the agents that are out in the marketplace right now as far as what it takes to be successful.


Brian Charlesworth  04:00

Yeah, so you went through 08 successfully, congratulations, starting in 2003. And I love to hear that you're off site doing business planning right now, because in my opinion, every team leader should do that, or broker owner in the month of October. You just mentioned two things you said number one, you want to finish the year strong. And number two, you want to know your vision and your goals and where you're at for next year. And where do you want to be? So I think it's so important that October is really the time to do that. If you wait until November, December, you're kind of behind the eight ball. Because what you do in November and December are actually showing up for you in January and February. Right as far as pay. So it's important that next year, the reality is that it actually starts next week. Right. So talk to us about what that look like planning for next year?


Ron Rocz  04:52

Well, I mean, it goes back to some of the basics right with as far as just sheer numbers, right? How many transactions do we want to do? What's our per agent transaction average? You know, whether they're at the brokerage or they're on the team? What's our average price point? What percentage of our business, our buyers, what percentage, there's our sellers, what's our average days on market? You know, we expect our listing inventory to rise, we expect our days on market to rise, that may have an effect on the sales value. So just all those elements in having an understanding of where we're going and having a frame of reference to hold ourselves accountable to that, like, are we on track? Are we off track, if you don't have a destination that anywhere will do but we, we choose to be in control of where we're going and be an active participant in this game of life. And we want to do big things and make some waves and have some fun along the ways. I once heard somebody say, if you're going to write your own story, why not make it a bestseller? Why not make it a thriller? Right, like you're in control of it. So like, put some thought into it?


Brian Charlesworth  05:58

I think that was actually my wife. You probably heard her say that. Because she says that all the time.


Ron Rocz  06:03

I haven't heard her say it. But you want to know that? I'll say I heard it from her. Because actually, when, sidenote who was a year ago today, a year ago, this week that I came out to visit your first of all, we've known each other for many years. I think that was the first time that we met in person, right when


Brian Charlesworth  06:17

That's right, yeah, you came out to our first Sisu mastery event. Yeah. So are you open to sharing your numbers this year, what you expect to do as a team and a brokerage, and what your goals are for next year?


Ron Rocz  06:31

Yeah, so our numbers for this year look like they're shaping out to be in line with what they weren't last year. So as the brokerage will probably settle in somewhere between 165 to 180 million last year, we did do a little bit more, we did 189 million as the brokerage. On the team side, we did 300 transactions for 89 million, but this year, we are already over 80 million, and we're pacing to do 100 million. So actually, the team exceeded its last year's production, the brokerage as a whole is still to be told whether we actually hit the same number or a little bit down. And I think that just has to do with just the act of participation and engagement that we have with the team on being dialed in to huddle more frequently, look at the numbers and just be more aware of where the adjustments need to be made and coming together for common purpose and working on a goal together.


Brian Charlesworth  07:28

So Ron, I mean, you make it sound so basic, that you know your numbers like inside and out for the team and the brokerage. And thankfully, Sisu plays a role that I know. But you have no idea how many masterminds I used to go to where these team owners or broker owners would talk about this is where we were last year, but they had no idea where they were this year. And you just know it real time. I love that. So one of the things you just said that stands out to me, and I've been saying this for a long time. And I know that you're a team owner and a broker owner. So hopefully this won't be offensive to you. But in my opinion, the traditional brokerage is dying. Teams are the future of the industry, I firmly believe that. And I just want to ask a few questions about your team versus your brokerage because your team it sounds like is growing this year, year over year, your brokerage is pretty much flat maybe down just a little bit it sounds like so one of the things you mentioned is one of the things you guys need to know is in this planning is what is your average agent doing both on the team and on the brokerage? On an annualized basis? What are those counts? Like? What is the team agent produce on an annual basis versus a broker agent.


Ron Rocz  08:42

So the team agent is doing 20 transactions on average. So we have 20 agents on the team 20 per 400 transactions for the team. So that's what we're doing. We have just shy of 50, roughly 50 agents at the brokerage and last year there were 600. And we'll be in the five. It looks like we'll be in the five hundreds this year. So the per agent when you blend in the entire office, the average probably goes down to 10 or 12 ish, you know, just depend Okay, so,


Brian Charlesworth  09:12

Okay, so it sounds like it's an average of around 20 for agents who are on the team and around 10 For who agents who are not on the team. And if you compare that with the industry average, I think I just read NAR has put out something that the average agent in real estate this year will do four transactions.


Ron Rocz  09:30

It seems like that numbers held somewhat pretty close the last several years, which I heard last year was 6.8 million transactions last year, which was our second best year after I think in 2004. Right before the market collapsed. We were like 7.7 million, but like 40% of those were speculation in second homes and that's where a lot of the bust and foreclosures occurred. And I heard that we were tracking for like 4.8 this year. Based on the adjustment on, you know, the interest rates and some of the fall outs on the contracts and the builder contracts that have fallen by the wayside, I don't know if those numbers are accurate timing to you.


Brian Charlesworth  10:11

So I actually met with somebody yesterday from one of the major brokerages and we talked about because that our Sisu event, Vija actually talked about that number from PLACE, she talked about 4.8 million as of the end of August is the number that NAR is forecasting for this year, 4.8 million transactions versus 6.8 years ago, I guess in 2008, we were at 4.2 million transactions. And I just heard yesterday from one of the C level guys that he just found out that the forecast for the next 12 months is 3.9 million. So that would actually indicate less than 2008. Nobody knows, right? It kind of depends on interest rates. All these people, you just talked about how many of these homes that were being purchased last year. And a good example of this is my daughter, she bought five homes over the last three years that are investment properties. Well, with these interest rates, she is not going to be doing that anymore. Right. Right. So what does that mean? Like? How is the impact? How are these interest rates impacting the market? And I mean, Michigan is one thing and what's going on up there? And then what do you see happening overall in the market?


Ron Rocz  11:31

I mean, you know, they say real estate, of course, is hyper local. So you know, just depends, our state as a population has, has still continued to shrink, we're not growing at the same rate that some other places like Florida is bursting at the seams in California and New York State is exploding in Nevada is exploding, a lot of people are going there. So your population growth is different. We had snow today. They're closing the pool at my house today. It was a little bit of a flurry of snow, I was talking about holding out to the last minute. Yeah, so it's I mean, if people are looking at, you know, obviously moving to sunnier skies, warmer weather, and so our population is still shrinking a little bit. We have had some people come back into the downtown, you know, metropolitan market, but COVID Hit the downtown market pretty hard, right? When everybody was required to work back in homes, the suburban market grew a little bit again, and people also got into the, you know, if I'm going to work from home, that I'm gonna work from someplace that I can have my feet and stand and maybe my face in the sun, you know, 300 days a year, you know, we have some overcast days here. So we expect our market to be a little bit more of that, right, like just we're going to continue along with our populations, like 9 million in the state, and we're in Southeast Michigan, which makes up the largest three counties in the entire state. We have some good things going on here, of course, and then, you know, the automobile industry is still very strong in electrification of cars. And, you know, so there are some good things going on here. But not all of that manufacturing is being done here. But a lot of the leadership and growth in that initiative is being done here. So you know, I don't have a crystal ball. But we expected the number of units and the number of sales to remain roughly the same given the available inventory, and who's able to buy.


Brian Charlesworth  13:16

Okay, so it's interesting, you just mentioned Florida, because I read an article yesterday that Florida is still having, like, just amazing, amazing real estate market. So let's talk about this. You say you expect the same number of transactions in Michigan, let's talk about these interest rates. Like what? What does this mean that there's obviously been a shift in the market from a seller's market to a buyers market? Right. Buyers now don't have to make a decision in a day. They have options. They have negotiating power, they have a lot of things they didn't have before. And I think the higher the interest rates go, the more that's going to be the case where not as many people are going to buy homes. Do you agree with that?


Ron Rocz  14:05

I do agree with that. I think that's, you know, when it became really inexpensive, right for people to know, first of all, when people bid up their bids by 50, you know, at 100,000. I mean, we had people that were in the upper price points. You know, if we had a over a million dollar home, it wasn't uncommon for people to offer 100. You know, 10-15% difference, right? $100,000 - 150,000 more.


Brian Charlesworth  14:33

I thought $500,000 homes in Utah were selling for $600 - 650k. Yeah, so big part of that is these people were moving in from California who had just sold their home that was half the size for a million dollars. Yeah,


Ron Rocz  14:45

Exactly. So everything's relative, right. So, you know, people will spend more on homes and, you know, the market will continue to adjust what what we're saying to people now, of course is to take for example, they're talking with a friend that, you know, $550,000 for a $500,000 home in January of this past year, and they have a 3% interest rate, and they're using the unit of measure is I got a 3% interest rate. I couldn't imagine buying a house at 7%. Well, that person paid 550 560 or 600,000, for that same house that you're just referencing. Well, I know here, that value is still 500. It wasn't 565. They just bid it up, because the cost of the money was so inexpensive, right? Well, now the house is really fine. It's still 500. It hasn't gone down. It just hasn't been being bid up. But it's not out of the question to think that homeowners still have the historical equity that nobody's ever had. And it's my understanding from KCM that the average homeowner, you know, that had their house for a substantial period of time has $300,000 in equity in their home. So if they want to sell it, maybe they don't want to be in Michigan, maybe they want to go to Florida, for example, like we were just talking about. Maybe they sell that $500,000 house for 450 or 475. Yes, somebody may pay a 7% interest rate, or five and a half if they buy the rate down or something like that. It's going to be a bigger payment. But they also paid somewhere between $175,000 Last for that house, right? Yeah. Yeah. So if rates do go back down, I don't think I mean, I don't know if they'll ever go back to three. But if they go to four, or five, I mean, I understand that a healthy rate. And what we're telling people to be somewhat expecting is that a healthy balanced rate is somewhere in the mid fives. I mean, the Mortgage Bankers Association and everything for people to earn interest on their money and for people to borrow money until, you know, a five ish rate is very conducive to a healthy economy.


Brian Charlesworth  16:43

Yeah, I don't remember how long ago it may have been 15 years ago, but I remember refinancing my house for 6% interest thinking it was the best thing ever.


Ron Rocz  16:52

Yeah, yeah, I did. I did the same thing. And you know, and then I refinanced when it was, you know, at three or, you know, the high twos or something like that. I was like, absolutely amazed. And I'm glad that I did it, because I can't do it now. But, you know, it is what it is. Right? Yeah.


Brian Charlesworth  17:06

And I liked what you said that it's, I think, I mean, it's clear, things happen in 2020, everyone thought the market was gonna crash. And then all of a sudden, the market just took off. And we were in a different market with super low interest rates, everybody wanting to sell, everybody wanting to buy the government giving people money, just a very unique situation. Now, I think we're moving back to a normal market and the normal market is 5 million homes a year selling, we got 6.8 million with 5 million homes selling or on the low end, it might go down to 4 million, 4.2 million. But even at that there's a lot of home selling a lot of opportunities for anybody in the business. And it's just a matter, are you telling yourself that the market's bad and you're not going to be able to sell anything? Are you one of the people telling yourself, hey, I'm gonna take advantage of this market opportunity to take market share. So I know you're doing some things right now to take market share, you're off site getting ready for next year? What are some other things that you need to do Ron in this market to be the one taking market share? While some people are actually stepping out of the industry?


Ron Rocz  18:11

I think one of the things that people would expect from a real estate professional, just like any other professional within somebody's life, they truly, they will gravitate towards somebody that they feel is a true trusted adviser. Right. And, and having open and honest conversations about the market, what it means to somebody, you know, when we have conversations with people, and this is what we talk to our agents about. We don't talk to them about calling people about trying to close somebody right or signing somebody, what do we have to do to get you in a house today, it's not like, you were just trying to move a certain number of houses, if you take care of the clients, they will take care of you. If you give them advice and education and knowledge and data to make informed decisions to better their lives. When the time comes, they will come to you. Right? So it is still a relational business. There are some people that are very transactional. And that's why so many people got into the real estate industry because it looked easy, right? In 2008 - 2009 and 2010, when the market was really challenging and people were trying to weather the storm, you know, somewhere dancing in the rain, doing great with it. But as the market got easy again and it started to come back out and you know, appreciate and again, it looked easy, so a lot of people got in so we went from 1.4 million realtors in 2004 to I think in 2011 We went down to 900,000 realtors, and then I think I last heard that the National Association of REALTORS was all the way up over 1.7 million Realtors on a national level. So just look at the number of units that have sold right. We talked about the average of 5 million. It was as high as 7.7 last year 6.8 with 1.7 million realtors. So what will likely happen is is the people that were just having anybody jump saying I want to buy a house and I'll over bid by $50,000 There wasn't a whole lot of skill there people were just saying, how much can you spend, let's just write it for the most amount and you would win the house. Right and. And on the listing side, if you could just get a listing, you know, somebody would give you what you're asking because the inventory was so tight, there wasn't a whole lot of you. No experience necessary. I recently heard that 91% of everybody in real estate right now has never had to deal with a day on the market that was greater than 45 days, or in selling a house with an interest rate over 4%. So if 91% of those people are there, we know what type of attrition and turnover there is. I think as far as an industry is concerned, the people who got in because it was super easy, will probably tap out or not renew the people who can get through and be a trusted advisor and remain there, they will continue to do business. And it's that Grit and determination that allows you to remain in the game for a longer sustained period of time. But the Grand Canyon wasn't cut from force, it was from persistence, right? So you can let the ones that will weather the storm be able to take the highs and lows and this business is an endurance business. I mean, you take the good times with the bad but as long as you can forecast and analyze and know where your business comes from and not get over leveraged, then you can sustain or weather the storm, right? Yeah.


Brian Charlesworth  21:33

So I love that you brought up Grit being that we are the Grit podcast. So thank you for doing that. I think what I heard you to summarize, I think what I heard you just say is bring value to your customers. And many of these agents are so new, they don't know how to bring value. And I think that's why it's so important today that an agent be on a team. So the team owners can teach them how to bring that value. And not saying broker owners can't teach them how to bring value, it's just not going to be the same level of teaching. So as we go through this time, like you just talked about, most people don't know. Most people in the industry today have never experienced my first listing when I jumped into the market to help Spring build her business seven years ago. My first listing was on the market for a year before it sold. million dollar listing, right, I had to renew it after six months. So like get used to it guys, you have to know how to go in and communicate every week with your sellers. And to price correctly. And same thing on the buy side like you have to bring value, they're not the fish just aren't jumping out of the water into your boat anymore. Right?


Ron Rocz  22:44

You know, I recently heard somebody say that. And then I watched your interview with Ryan O'Neal. And I heard you reference that. And it was funny because I just heard you say that. And you said that again, it is true that I've heard that come up a couple times. And that's literally what it's been handling of my house. I can afford to pay this, you know, offer $50 or $100,000 More, and I'll put 50% down and I'll waive all contingencies. And the agent was like, Okay, sign here, right?


Brian Charlesworth  23:09

I heard a new agent the other day took a listing, and it didn't sell the first week. And so they actually asked, so should I just have them rent the house? Because it hasn't sold? Oh, it's been on the market for a week. What are the average days on market? I know it's different every state but it's certainly not a week anymore. Right? It's 30 days, 60 days? I don't know. It's not a week?


Ron Rocz  23:35

Well, yeah, well, we've had people say like, Hey, this property has been on the market for a week or 10 days now. I called the listing agent and they said that there were no other offers, do you think I need to go way over asking? And I'm like, Are you kidding me?


Brian Charlesworth  23:51

That's awesome. Yeah. So again, that's the perception that a lot of these agents are in and it's important that they sharpen their skills and learn what it takes to really be in a real real estate market right?


Ron Rocz  24:02

Now. Well, it's, you know, back to what you were talking about, about teams being the future of the business as it's like, you know, I often refer to kind of the evolution of real estate is back in the day, you know, there was always the brokerage was kind of the team, right? The brokerage was on a split with their agents. People would seek out the brokerage of the reputable firm to list and sell their house right, and it was in their neighborhood and the town expert, and then they would assign it to one of their agents that sub agents of the broker and then they would do their job. And then that market, you know, that eventually shifted into more of a from a broker model to an agent centric model. Right? You know, the REMAXs and Keller Williams of the world that kind of made that shift to what's more prominent now with many brands is that agent centric model in which the agents got more of the commission but in exchange of that for that they did more of the business, right. So meaning that they would do more of the support, they would have their own transaction coordinators, their own, you know, marketing people and the broker took less. That's why owning the brokerage was less exciting than it used to be because the margins were narrowed. And that's when the team started to pick up where the brokerage stopped performing those services. That's the reason to have the team. Right? It's because the brokerage can't afford to provide the services if they were given the commission's to the agents and enticing splits. And now we're kind of back to that point to where you are the person that actually referred to our brokerage as a teamerage when we did that first client spotlight. And I wasn't really familiar with that. And it was the ability to operate as a team, meaning that we have a unity of vision that we provide a certain level of systematic approach to, we have a marketing system, we have a company sponsored CRM, we have processes, we have transaction coordinators, we have marketing coordinators, we want the agents to do what's most profitable and productive for that is to go and sell real estate. So we assist them with that process. But we have the ability to not have to go to our team leader or managing broker or whatever to sign off on some IDX agreement. So we can get a website, we are the broker as well. So that's where it worked out for us. So if you know, I think that, you know, somewhere between there, everybody finds their own niche, and that seems to be ours, where we have the autonomy of, of an independent brokerage, operating under a big national or international brand. But we unify as very team centric. So yeah, and


Brian Charlesworth  26:35

I'm not sure where I first heard that term. But I think definitely, brokerages need to become a teamerage, which is basically a brokerage, operating like a team, right? Or the teams will move up and become the brokerage depending on right, one of those two. So


Ron Rocz  26:54

I didn't know which way it was gonna go. So we were just both. We're brokers.


Brian Charlesworth  26:57

You might as well be both right. So yeah, so great. Well, as I look at what you guys are doing there at Nexus, Ron, I read that you guys are on a mission to innovate, inspire, and connect. So tell me what that means.


Ron Rocz  27:13

Well, so innovate, right? We want to challenge the status quo, you know, per se, of just if there's a way of doing something, is there a better way of doing it? Can we bring more value? Can we take some of the steps out? Can we offer more assistance or support to our agent, just constantly understanding that the journey is the destination, right? Like we were always in the process of becoming better, right? It's never like that, a lot of real estate agents learned how to do a listing presentation 20 years ago, and that's how they've done it for 20 years. So they have one years worth of experience, and they've done it for 20 years. We want to make sure that we're constantly challenging our agents and the people that we interact with, about tweaking and improving everything that they're doing, right. If we can take a step out or add something that just is more visually or simplifying the process for our clients, whether that's a presentation technique or support solution, then we're going to bring that to our agents and tested and provide it and then sponsor it so they can adopt it without having to go reinvent the wheel. Right. So that's the “innovate” section of it. “Inspire” is really just to think big, and to cast a big vision and just say we can get there together, right. And so we want to inspire our agents to do that. And then it's just to “connect” them to those solutions. And that's what Nexus at its core means. Nexus means to connect. And so we are the nexus for agents. We can work with individual agents that want to be a part of a team or even teams that don't have the infrastructure themselves. Maybe there's like a two party team or husband or wife team that have more leads than they have time will, they could utilize the ISA team that our flagship team uses, you know, without having to hire their own ISA or sponsor their own CRM or to launch their own Follow Up campaign. We can A/B test all those things in the background and deploy it to many, and they can make use of those systems. Right. So it's kind of a team's kind of a brokerage. It's kind of a platform for other teams to plug into. So


Brian Charlesworth  29:15

Okay, great. Love it. So for the sake of time, do you have any just last advice as to what people really should be doing today? To thrive in this market?


Ron Rocz  29:27

Yeah, don't hide, right. Like, just really get in front of the topics that are there. Use the tools that are available to you. I mean, most people have a CRM and they don't use them. And even if it's as simple as just your phone, I recently spoke with a very high individual producing agent who does several 100 transactions on his own and his CRM is just his iPhone, but under each one of his contacts, he'll just tag in the notes section a day. Right? And so if it's Thursday, he'll just pull up Thursday and anybody that comes up, that's what he calls on Thursday. You know, on Friday, he'll just go


Brian Charlesworth  29:59

Wow and he's doing a couple of 100 transactions?


Ron Rocz  30:02

It's amazing the amount of output that this person does, but he does.


Brian Charlesworth  30:05

Wow! That's impressive.


Ron Rocz  30:06

Extremely high level. But that is just one. That's just one example of utilizing technology, right. So another person I recently heard and I shared this with our team is when you're using a CRM, you should embrace the tool, and you should use it to its highest level. So if somebody makes a comment that they are scared about the market, or they're nervous about what's on the horizon, or if they're thinking about selling or buying, but they're just uncertain, you know, maybe tag them just as such, tag them as scared, right. And then when you come across, you know, that monthly market constant instead of just waiting out the market, you know, learning about the market getting ahead of it, when the market went down, I would let the last time and I'm not saying that we're going to do this again, because we were in a different financial situation before. But this time around, I think people would just get really scared of what they would do. And we just had to get ahead. So I never wanted to do a short sale but I learned how to do short sales because I needed to write and I don't think that we're going to get back to short sales. I don't think that we're going to get there at all. But people are scared. And we knew we needed to acknowledge it and say it's okay, and say, Tell me more about that. Ask them questions, you know, learn about what their, what their desires are, what their goals are, how can we help them and again, just help them make informed decisions, because the time will come that they'll need to make a move. And it's usually when people look back that they connect the dots, and they were like, Oh, that was the bottom, we should have moved a little bit earlier. You know, the best time to move is when you need to move, and when you're ready to move on when you're capable of moving. So


Brian Charlesworth  31:35

well said. So thanks for sharing that. I know I just want to ask a couple personal things, I'd like to get to know you a little bit better and have our listeners get to know you a little bit better as well. So I know that you like you came to our Sisu mastery, you're into networking, coming to conferences, learning, growing, but what is your number one source of learning?


Ron Rocz  31:54

I? To put that on the spot?


Brian Charlesworth  32:01

Man, maybe it might be books, it might be podcasts? It might be conferences, like what is that?


Ron Rocz  32:05

I would say it's all of the above, right. So I do attend a lot of conferences. I do mastermind with a lot of agents, I have some private mastermind groups from people within my brand outside of my brands that I've met through organizations like yours, through CRM platforms, whether it be you know, the CRS or boomtowns, or the different brands and brokerages. But I make learning a big part of my day and my week, that's really what I think that a leaders role is is to look out to forecast to have their be up in the crow's nest on the ship, right like being on the lookout of what's on the horizon. And the only way to do that is to keep your finger on the pulse sometimes when you're so busy being the technician of a job if you're actively selling every single day, and I know a lot of great agents that sell every single day. But they may have a finger on the pulse of what's going on in their market, but maybe not understand that direction of their business because they're so busy in their business, right. They're running a business. And I think part of that is just being plugged in to the things that are available. So I'm constantly listening to books, I'm constantly listening to podcasts, I do sign up for many podcasts and webinars knowing that if I miss them, I will usually be sent a copy of it. And you know, if I walk my dog, I'm probably listening to a podcast, right?


Brian Charlesworth  33:21

Yeah. So yeah, do you have a favorite book that you would recommend?


Ron Rocz  33:24

A favorite book, you know, at different stages of my learning path, I would say that I've listened to different things. So as I guess it's where you're at in your business, if you are an active salesperson out there doing listing and selling techniques, presentation, you know, books like Talent is Overrated was a great one. You know, the E Myth by Michael Gerber was another great one that talks about having systems in your business, if you have a system in your business. And just like your transaction management platform, we use this in Sisu. So if we have something on the system, and somebody doesn't do it is because they didn't follow the system if they do it more than once and didn't check it off. So if somebody else does it, it reflects upon us negatively as well. So if you have a system, then you follow the process, right? If you don't have a system, then you improve the people to follow the process. Right. So it's one or the other. And so I guess it depends on where you're at. If you're playing the role of the CEO of leading an organization, I think that the books and the people that you associate with are going to be of like mind, if you're in the trenches, elbow to elbow, belly to belly sitting at the listing table, you may listen and learn from people that are doing those same things. But I think different stages of your career require different phases of education, just like a syllabus in a college or a master's program. You know, the learning track should represent where you're at. If you're a CEO, and you're listening to sales techniques that will help you lead the sales team but that's probably more appropriate for the sales manager. And you should probably do more CEO stuff.


Brian Charlesworth  34:54

Yeah. Well said. What's your favorite place to visit being up in Michigan like if you're gonna go on Vacation. What was that place?


Ron Rocz  35:01

It's funny here in Michigan, we always hear people we go up north, right? So we go to Northern Michigan, the Upper Peninsula of Michigan is absolutely beautiful. The Pictured Rocks and having access to the Great Lakes and just the amazingness that's around us. I you know, just being out and exploring here is beautiful.


Brian Charlesworth  35:21

Okay, good to know, I've heard that from several people. I need to make it up there. I've never been there. So


Ron Rocz  35:26

Go to all the Pictured Rocks, you know, kayaking, hiking, just beautiful scenery up there. I mean, you could start by googling it, but you get a pretty good idea of… Mackinac is beautiful. You know, there's a lot of things to see on the western side of the state especially.


Brian Charlesworth  35:41

So it sounds like you're in the outdoors. Is that your favorite thing to do in your free time is outdoor stuff, or what's your favorite hobby?


Ron Rocz  35:49

Yeah, I enjoy outdoor stuff. I shouldn't make more time for that. You know, I've done some mountain biking and trail riding, nothing as extreme as I know you do, because I admire your posts about your, your rides. We've talked about your E bike and all those things.


Brian Charlesworth  36:04

But mountain biking is my mountain biking time has been way down this year. And I'm not sure why. But


Ron Rocz  36:10

Your posts about it. I've noticed that I've been meaning to talk to you about that. But yeah, we have some great rails to trails like we can go from Lake Michigan on the western side of the state all the way over to you know, Port Huron just on old rails to trail systems that have been converted, you know, so there's a lot of trail riding and I that's about the extent of bike riding that I do these days. It's too dangerous. Too many people are texting and driving when they shouldn't be so I'd rather be on a trail. Yeah, then I would be on the road.


Brian Charlesworth  36:36

Yes, you me both. Ron, how do people best get a hold of you if they want to reach out and have any further questions for you?


Ron Rocz  36:42

Well, I'm pretty easy to, I mean, of course, you can just find me at, my name. I'm everywhere. R-o-n R-o-c-z. You know, so my website, all my social media handles are that way, you know,, you know, Insta, RonRocz. LinkedIn, all my profiles are all the same. You can even call me 866 R-O-N-R-O-C-Z


Brian Charlesworth  37:04

866 R-O-N-R-O-C-Z. Is that really?


Ron Rocz  37:07

It's just that's myself back in the day.


Brian Charlesworth  37:13

That is awesome. I love it. So again, everyone, Ron Rocz, which is R-O-C-Z. And Ron, thanks for joining us today. It's been fun catching up with you. And always a pleasure. I love spending time with you. So thanks for joining us on the Grit podcast.


Ron Rocz  37:28

Thanks, Brian. I appreciate you.

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