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Episode 128: Revolutionizing Real Estate: Unleashing the Power of Mindset and Client Experience with Zac Muir

In an era where client expectations are at an all-time high, creating meaningful experiences and delivering unparalleled service can make all the difference in the real estate industry.

Brian Charlesworth

Brian Charlesworth

Chairman & CEO

Brian is a highly accomplished entrepreneur, business builder, and thought leader in the real estate industry. With a track record of success in software, telecommunications, and franchise businesses, Brian has a talent for identifying and realizing business opportunities. Driven by his passion for technology, Brian is dedicated to using his skills and experience to bring about positive change and improve people's lives through the advancement of technology.


As market dynamics continue to evolve, agents who genuinely understand their client's needs and adapt swiftly are the ones who will thrive. But how can agents reshape the industry standards and redefine client experience? And what role does mindset play in all this?

In this episode, we delve into these questions with Zac Muir, the thriving VP of revenue, as he sits down for a chat with Brian Charlesworth, the Founder, and CEO of Sisu.

Zac discusses his transformational journey, sharing how he went from being unsure about his career path to eventually finding his calling in the real estate industry. Discover how a single book ignited a fire within him, setting him on a path of relentless growth and unending curiosity.

But a success story isn't merely built on passion alone. It requires clarity of vision, an understanding of numbers, and a tireless drive to improve. Zac emphasizes the significance of clear, quantitative goals that create a "winnable game," making business not only lucrative but also enjoyable.

Then we shift our focus to the hot topic in the industry today: The client experience. Zac presents a thought-provoking comparison between real estate operations and food delivery services like DoorDash. If ordering food can be so simple, transparent, and efficient, why can't buying a house be the same? With insights into Sisu's client portal, Zac proposes a solution that promises to revolutionize the industry, enhancing communication and transparency for clients

So, what does it mean to deliver an incredible experience? And why is Sisu the game-changer in the realm of real estate? Join us in this exciting episode as Zac Muir and Brian Charlesworth discuss the roadmap to a successful real estate career, the power of a robust mindset, and the future of client experience in the industry. Don't miss this insightful conversation! Tune in now.

Top Takeaways:

(6:12) The power of loving your work
(7:51) The paradox of comfort
(11:12) Why external perspective is important
(13:24) The importance of balancing communication and personal satisfaction for a fulfilling life
(16:57) Embracing the connection between current execution and future success
(19:24) The role of leadership in real estate industry dominance
(23:12) Why is it crucial to align accountability with individual aspirations
(27:01) How to learn from customer-centric models for seamless transactions
(32:12) Why should we empower agents with a clear path to success

About Zac Muir

Zac Muir, the dynamic VP of Revenue at Sisu, carries an infectious passion for technology, innovation, and creativity. Alongside his love for the great outdoors, his dog Twix, and, most importantly, his family, Zac's been instrumental in steering successful innovations in the real estate SaaS space. With a proven track record of deploying game-changing strategies, he's transformed the performance metrics for real estate brokerages nationwide. Now, he's here to share his insights on the magic of quantifiable benefits in real estate tech and the path to doubling production in the industry.

Connect with Zac Muir


Episode Transcript:

Brian Charlesworth  00:35
All right. Hello, everyone. And welcome back to the Grit Podcast. I'm Brian Charlesworth and the founder of Sisu. And the host of this show today, and I'm excited about today. I'm doing something a little bit different than we've done before. We've brought in a lot of real estate guests, a lot of entrepreneurs. But one thing I have not done is brought in people from the Sisu team. And so today, I'm here with Zac mirrors. Zac is our VP of Revenue, and has actually a great story to share about his personal life. Personal Development has a really good insight and perspective on the real estate industry. So Zac, welcome to the show.

Zac Muir  01:10
So Brian, I remember when we launched the Grit podcast like four or five years ago and wasn't thinking of being a guest on it back then. But I'm very excited to be here.

Brian Charlesworth  01:21
So Zac, the other day said something, I don't know. It was a little bit witty, you know, to me, like what's about time you have me on the show or something. So anyway, Zac, love having you here. I'm excited to get your perspective on things. So I want to just dive in. Maybe you could start by just sharing your journey with us as far as like, how did you get to where you are today?

Zac Muir  01:44
Yeah, the course was, you know, I interned like my freshman year of college, I was an intern with a software company, and quickly found that something I was really good at was writing blogs, I've always been a good writer, I've always been able to whip out my college essays very, very fast and help my friends work theirs out very fast, and found that I'm good at taking complicated topics and turning them into words that anybody can follow, right. And that's kind of been a talent for me over the years. And as you know, as I progressed with that, I started doing a lot of freelance. So I was writing blogs for a lot of different software companies. I was writing blogs for chlorinated pvc piping was one of my clients, I wrote all these blogs, I know more than I ever cared to know about semiconductors and CPVC piping, but I was just good at taking these complicated topics and, and distilling them to their essence and turning it into words. And as you know, back then I was also writing for Sisu. And that's kind of how this whole journey started.

Brian Charlesworth  02:48
Well, Zac, if you can turn pvc piping into something interesting. I'm guessing you can make anything sound interesting.

Zac Muir  02:56
Yes, I would agree with that. All right, so

Brian Charlesworth  02:59
So Zac, when you started your career with Sisu, you were really just a third-party consultant who wrote blogs helping me become a industry thought leader. That was really the take there. And then I remember you graduated from the University of Utah. And I was actually referring you to people, software companies in Utah, who I knew their executive teams. And I remember Frank saying, What are you doing? Like, what are you even thinking here? And I said, Well, if you want Zac, you need to hire him, like, otherwise, he's gonna go work somewhere else. He goes, Okay, well, don't help them get a job somewhere else. We're gonna keep that care. So, anyway, exactly. The three things I've noticed about you is that you're super coachable, you're hungry, and you're driven. So you started writing blogs for us? And then you came into Sisu. Why did you choose to come to Sisu versus one of these billion-dollar unicorn companies here in Utah?

Zac Muir  03:57
Yeah, it's, it's a great question, Frank. And this is something that I think a lot of people can learn from Frank is one of the best people I have ever worked for. And I think a lot of times as much as picking a job, you're picking a boss, right? And Frank has always let me run with ideas and given me a lot of room to learn and grow and make mistakes and coach me through those mistakes, right. And that was so big for me at the start that I always felt like I was able to take on tasks that were above my experience level, right. And as I took on those tasks, succeeded with them, I found that I was given more tasks and higher level tasks. So I was really always felt like I had a seat at the table and I could bring these ideas to you and to Frank, and we'd go out and execute on them and you guys would give me all the support I needed to and as I did that I was given more right and it was just exciting. You know, I've been at a very, very big software company, 16,000 employees, and you don't see what your work actually becomes in that to me, especially in an endless St were like if you're working, most people working today, it's not like when you're working on a farm, and you get to actually see the crops grow, or you work on a house, and you get to see the finished product. So being here and seeing the finished product as much as I could, versus at a very, very big software company, where it just never seem to see the light of day. That was a big deal for me, and it helped me grow and help me feel fulfilled. And that's the two things I care the most about from my work.

Brian Charlesworth  05:25
Yeah, awesome. Those are definitely two different cultures. So like, what is it, Zac, that motivates you? Because Frank's always said to me stuff like you know, I'll teach Zac just an example, teach Zac, how to run Salesforce. And before you know it, he knows 10 times more than I know. And so you're always like, super just eager to get in and dive in and to learn about things and probably learn at a level beyond who your leaders are. So what motivates you to do that stuff? 

Zac Muir  06:00
Yeah, I mean, I think it comes down to what do you want from your work? Right? This is something I've spent a lot of time on we you spend, I mean, most of your waking hours working, right? And to me, when I really get clear on what do I want from my work? One, I want work that challenges me and pushes me to grow. And that comes from learning, I believe, and to something that I always think about is I think a lot of people approach their job with a mindset of like, Man, if I can make a certain amount of money, I can get to a point where I don't really have to work anymore. And then I'm going to be happy, right? And to me, it's the opposite. You want to find work that you fall in love with. Right? That is the ultimate goal is to have work that you can fall in love with, genuinely enjoy. And I found when those two things are together, I get that and I find myself even when I'm sitting at the pool, I'm thinking about work. And it's fun, right? There is no, in my mind, work-life balance. You should love your work and your life. It's all part of one life that you're building. Right?

Brian Charlesworth  06:58
It all goes together, right? Yeah. For those that I've seen, who are most successful, and for those who are the happiest. That is typically the case, 

Zac Muir  07:06
Anyone here who's listening, I'm sure, can think of somebody who like went through a retirement, I can think of a handful of people, or like a mini-retirement or they were looking for work. And those are some people who I know are like, genuinely really happy. And during that period, they were like, very much not happy. Like they didn't have a job. But what they wanted was to be back in action. Right. So your perspective, I think for me, 

Brian Charlesworth  07:30
I think people who are creators, people who are doers want to change the world want to bring value to other people. They're motivated by that. And the minute you stop providing value, the minute you stop growing, life isn't so fun anymore. So sitting on the couch, watching TV is not not a motivation for me. I have no desire to have that life.

Zac Muir  07:50
Yeah, it's okay, so interesting. Anyone who's talked to me for a long enough time, you're gonna find out that I have a four-pound Chihuahua, he's my dog, I love him to death. But like, this dog has the most plush life ever. He is very much spoiled, and has nothing to worry about. But the mind, I think it tells you something about how the mind works because he's always looking out the window, looking for problems and looking for trouble, right and looking for the threat even though this dog has nothing to worry about in the entire world. And I think our minds work that way too. When we don't have a worthy challenge that's pushing us each day towards something good. We'll go and find a challenge. And it might not be a productive one. In fact, if you don't have a worthy challenge, you're gonna go find one that doesn't need to be there. That's probably harmful. But one way or another, your brain is going to find a way to challenge itself.

Brian Charlesworth  08:38
Yeah, okay, Zac. So you're the VP of Revenue today at Sisu, and you really sell marketing and support all roll up under you. I remember the first time we had you get on the phone and make the first sales call and Sisu moving you from being a blog writer to being a full-time Sisu employee, you say you're the number one employee, that's probably truth. So here you are exploring, okay, how do we make sales calls to moving up to Director of Sales and then having sales marketing again, and customer success underneath you? I've noticed so much growth in you from like, how you manage your teams, how do you continue to grow? And how do you get to where you're capable of doing exactly that, you know, going from being the single salesperson to managing three different divisions of the company?

Zac Muir  09:35
Yeah, I mean, a lot of it you learn on the job, and that's great. But when I look at like where I've gone through growth, which is also where I've gone through challenges is where the growth comes. But the times when I took that and went and found a mentor, right I've had a lot of great mentors over the years. But when I if I were to map out my own growth, it's where I went out and got somebody to at least give me some perspective is where I've grown the most was didn't grow the fastest and skipped the learning curve as much as I could.

Brian Charlesworth  10:04
Yeah, and one thing I love about you is you've gone out, and you've hired coaches outside of the company. So you have a coach today, right?

Zac Muir  10:13
Correct. Yeah, I've got two that I'm working with two great mentors I'm working with,

Brian Charlesworth  10:18
Okay. And those, those two have nothing to do with Sisu.

Zac Muir  10:22
No, they're just people that I view as leaders who embody the characteristics and the traits that I want to have. And they push the crap out of me, they're willing to push, they challenge me, they challenge the way that I'm thinking. And that's exactly what I want.

Brian Charlesworth  10:39
So to anyone listening, if you want that kind of growth, get yourself outside of your company environment into other environments where you can grow. And even if you're a leader, and you want your team to grow at that level, like you do you think I'm grateful that Zac has these outside mentors, and coaches that he actually pays to make him a better person? Absolutely. Like that. To me, that's, that's super exciting that you do that, Zac, and I have mad respect for it. 

Zac Muir  11:09
But one thing that's important too, and like I obviously biased, consider myself a pretty emotionally intelligent person. But even the most emotionally intelligent people like your relationship with your boss and the people you report to, like, the last thing you ever want to do is let them down. And sometimes you can't be as direct maybe as you'd like, between like someone who you report to in an organization and back down the chain of command, right? When you have someone outside your company, when they can flat out, look me in the eye and say, Zac, you are being an absolute idiot about this. And I feel zero emotion, like, Great, thank you. But it's just different when it's inside the company. Right? It's not that those conversations can't be had, they absolutely can. But someone outside man, they can just look you right in the eyes and tell you how dumb you're being, and you will thank them for it. Right? And it's great. 

Brian Charlesworth  11:57
That's true. There's a lot of truth to that. So, Zac, when you're heading up three departments like that, I know you've got we've got a lot of things we're focused on right now. One is getting to profitability. What are the big key focus points for you? Maybe the big rocks without going into numbers? But what are the big rocks for yourselves marketing and success teams?

Zac Muir  12:17
Yeah, big things we're focused on an exercise that we've been doing lately has everything to do with expectations. So this came from a mentor of mine who said that all conflict in any relationship has to do with one of three things, right? It's either unmet expectations, it's unrealistic expectations, or it's expectations that are not agreed upon, right? And I heard that and I started looking at every point of friction I've ever had in a relationship or between departments. And it all comes down to that there's either an expectation that's not being met, it's not understood or it's not agreed upon, right. And so I mean, that's just everything, right? All of our departments if they have these clear expectations, and this is something that we're really working on right now, and understand and agree upon what's expected between departments, now we can fulfill those relationships, right. And so much of the noise goes away when you start to understand those things. And it's something that you always have to be working on and communicating well on. And that has been very powerful for us. So that's a rock right now.

Brian Charlesworth  13:20
You're talking about expectations, I would add communication into that, if you're not communicating effectively, nobody's going to know your expectations, right? But expectations goes beyond communication because that's how it is in life for us as well. If we're not happy in life, it usually means that our expectations don't match our actual life. That's why we're not happy. Yeah. So you have two choices there, you can either make changes to your life that make it meet those expectations. Or you can change your expectations. And if you can get those in alignment. You're now happy. 

Zac Muir  13:52
Yeah. Another thing that's been really exciting lately, we did this off-site, Brian, a couple of weeks ago, or about a month ago, one thing that I've been able to experience at the company is both sides of things, I've been able to work very closely with you, and Frank and just understanding the vision of this company, where we're going and why it's so impactful. And that is so exciting. I've also been on the front lines understanding like what it's like to be in the weeds all day long, every single day, right? So we put together an off-site and just that communication of the vision and just because Brian, you think about the vision all day long, every single day, right? You've done a great job of now communicating that down because it's it's an everyday thing. And I think that's why people stay with companies because ultimately they buy into the vision they buy into where this thing's going, and the clearer we get on that. I think the higher the morale is the more people love being here. And that's been a big rock for us lately, too.

Brian Charlesworth  14:50
So Zac, share that vision with us. Like what is it about this vision that keeps you around? Because I remember you telling me when you came on board here you said, Okay, I'll commit to two years. So how long have you been here now?

Zac Muir  15:04
It's been, I mean, if you go back to the very first blog we wrote, It's been six years. So.

Brian Charlesworth  15:10
So What's kept you here for six years?

Zac Muir  15:12
Yeah, that's a great question. I mean, there are a couple of things.

Brian Charlesworth  15:16
And I think this is key, because like a lot of our teams, and not just our teams, but real estate teams in any business, but one of your biggest challenges is keeping great people in the company.

Zac Muir  15:27
So I look at it two ways there. Because the company has two products, right? It has every company, I believe, has two products. One is the service or in our case, you know, software that we put out and a platform and all those services that we serve our clients with, well, the other is your employees and the life that you create for your employees. And both are incredibly important products. Right? So the vision that there's a big vision here for both of those right for me, as a part of this company, I love that I'm in you know, I've been apart since day one. And I know that as this company gets more and more successful, right? Those are trophies that sit on my trophy rack that nobody can ever take away from me that I can always say, I was one of the first 50 employees that this company that did this, this, this, and this, and that's going to open up doors for me and my future life, to do all kinds of things that I want to do. Right. And I'm very clear that what I'm doing now is tied into that future vision. And I think our people are too and that's very, very powerful. Right?

Brian Charlesworth  16:30
Yeah. So let's talk about your future vision. Where do you see yourself in five years,

Zac Muir  16:35
I've always been very clear. I mean, I've always loved software, I've loved tech, I've loved the strategy side of business, I've been pretty much my entire life mentored and raised by CEOs, executives, like, it's just always been in my mind that like, that's what I want to do, I want to start my own company. And that, I think there's a lot of people in that same boat. But the thing that I realized one day, actually a mentor of mine said, Zac like, I know you want to go do this in the future, and you will write, but what makes you think you're gonna execute on that future vision, if you're not executing on what's on your plate right now. And that hit me pretty hard. I said, Okay. I'm going to execute here, because executing, here's what's going to open up all of that in the future. And he said, and by the way, you have this thing you want to do in the future, you don't even know what it is yet. So you better be executing here and universe, or whatever you believe in, it will not give opportunities to people who aren't executing on the ones they already have. And that moment was like, Okay, I'm all in here. I know that. And I know that there are things in my future that will benefit from what I'm doing right now.

Brian Charlesworth  17:40
So it's such great advice. And I mean, you can apply that to every aspect of your life, right? I mean, even family life being in the moment, you know, versus living for the future, living for the past, right?

Zac Muir  17:51
You and I had this conversation, right? And it's another conversation I was having, I'm having my first kid in August, I'm very, very excited. But I kept talking about how excited I was to have him as a toddler, and like, you know, go golfing or whatever, teach them how to golf. And the conversation was, well, you're already skipping the baby phase. And guess what, when you get to the toddler phase, you're going to be tempted to think, oh, man, I just can't wait till they talk. And then when they talk, you say I just can't wait till he's, you know, in high school. And that's the challenge of life is you're always giving away what you have now for what you want in the future. So just take the said, just take the time to enjoy having a baby in your arms, that you can create a like a football and I was like, wow, that's, that's very powerful. And it was a wake-up for me. So

Brian Charlesworth  18:37
that's amazing advice. And you can also pass by the moments of like, you have moments right now where the baby's moving inside of the stomach, right? I mean, that's all opportunity that if you don't just embrace it and take advantage of it, you're going to miss it. A great. Yeah, it's great advice, Zac. So switching gears a little bit, you've worked with 1000s of teams. Now we have 3600 teams on the platform, roughly. I would say anyone in our company, you and Braxton probably know the majority of those teams or more than any I try to I try to get to know as many as possible. But I mean, with that many, it's hard to get to know them all. So you've probably worked closer with them in their businesses. What is working in today's industry? And maybe let's back up a little bit what's happening in today's industry in your eyes. Yeah. Real estate industry. Let's talk about that.

Zac Muir  19:46
So, what is working and what is dominating right now is just flying out leadership. Right? That is, especially when you look at a market that a lot of people are struggling in and what do people look to when they struggle it's really Leadership, right? So I don't care what your model is what CRM us what anything is, the best thing that you can do right now to level up your game is look at the type of leader you are, because that is going to determine where you end up. 

Brian Charlesworth  20:12
So you're saying me becoming a better leader is going to attract more people to me? 

Zac Muir  20:17
100%? Yep. 

Brian Charlesworth  20:19
So if I want to grow and scale my business, I need to focus on myself and be a better leader.

Zac Muir  20:23
100%. Yeah,

Brian Charlesworth  20:24
I totally agree with that such truth. Yeah. All right. So if I'm a better leader in today's market, with the market being what it is, like, what do I need to do to run a, say, a real estate business? Because you see this, you see teams out there that are huge and not profitable. You see teams that are huge and profitable, small, unprofitable, like what is it that I need to do to run an effective business? Once I've improved my leadership? What are the great leaders doing?

Zac Muir  20:50
Yeah, I mean, tying it back to expectations, I think that's huge leaders are communicators, right? So the people in your world should have very clear, a very clear understanding of what it is that can be expected on both sides, your relationship, if you have people that report to you or the agents all the way down in your organization, right, and they'll appreciate this for you. And one of the ways in exercise a mentor had me do was like a blind study, right? Was have people in my organization write what their expectations are of me, and what they think my expectations are of them, and I'm going to do the same. And you look at it, you're like, how is this sell-off? And is very valuable. But I think, you know, whether you call it expectations or communications, that is the first thing, right, that the foundation of all leadership is trust, right? I need to be able to trust that you will execute on your part, and you need to be able to trust that I'll execute on my part. And that trust is earned over, you know, instances and instances of going out and doing the things that are expected some.

Brian Charlesworth  21:55
So if I'm a team leader in today's world, and I'm building that trust, what is it you think the expectations of agents are for team leaders today? Like, what do they want joining a team? What is the value I can provide?

Zac Muir  22:07
Yeah, you know, it's interesting because I believe this could change based on what agent you're bringing in. So right off the bat, the type of message that you put out there, and you're recruiting to determine the type of people that you bring into your organization, right, and the people that you want in your organization, what they actually crave is accountability. They want somebody just like I was talking about with my mentors, they want someone who's gonna push them really hard, right? And I think if you shy away from that in your recruiting message, you start attracting people who don't want to be pushed very hard, and you start building the wrong culture, right? So the right type of person, they're running towards that accountability, and you can give it to them. That's what they want out of a leader. They want someone who's going to push them to be the best version of themselves.

Brian Charlesworth  22:52
It's what you're saying is so true. But I would say there are probably 80% of team leaders in this industry would disagree with that, maybe. And I think the reason they would disagree with that is because they don't want to hold people accountable, because they have a fear inside of them of holding someone accountable. But what I've seen is if you're holding someone accountable to their goals, right? Like, if I bring you in here, Zac, and I asked you, where do you want to be in five years, I can help you get to where you want to be in five years. Now you're going to be like, okay, he's helping me reach my highest level be the highest Zac, I can be. But if I'm bringing them in saying, Oh, I expect you to do two appointments a day or whatever it is. Because that's what I expect of me, that's what I expect in order for me to hit my goals. They're not interested in that. Right. So Oh, yeah. Make sure when you're when you and Zac, I agree with everything you said. The key is that accountability. Make sure you're knowing what it is they want to achieve in their lives. And that's what you're holding them accountable to, then they're grateful for it right versus being annoyed by it.

Zac Muir  24:00
It's crazy how much that one little thing can either make this entire thing work or this entire thing break, right you have to hold, especially in this industry, you're holding agents accountable to what they want to achieve and the life that they want to create. And they will thank you for that. I think that's a spot on Brian.

Brian Charlesworth  24:17
Yeah. Is it possible to be successful in today's industry, like real estate, if I watch the news like I would think real estate is like, it's blowing up, right? It's in the trash, like, there's no hope. And if I watch the news, there is no hope for me because I'm getting fed, my brain is getting fed by the news. So first, before we get into where the industry really is, let's talk about feeding your brain. I'm, as you know, I'm a big proponent of growth mindset. I know you read a ton of books, like what is it you can do to not listen to the chatter of the news and tip stay focused on what you can control?

Zac Muir  24:52
Yeah, well, first of all, let's not listen to the news.

Brian Charlesworth  24:57
The most unproductive time someone could pass Somebody's spending their life is listening to the news, right?

Zac Muir  25:03
Yeah, there's such a ridiculous amount of content out there that is good that you can listen to. And that's exciting. You know, you can, you can pull up your smartphone. And there's three different apps where you can listen to some of the most intelligent people on the planet tell their story, right. So I think it's less about what book you're listening to at any given moment, but that you are looking for those positive things, and you have it built into your schedule. So like, for me, I know when I'm walking my dog, and when I'm at the gym, those are, I'm gonna get at least seven hours a week, just from those to where I'm listening to some incredible uplifting or, you know, or stories that are going to challenge me and challenge the way that I think in the way that I approach things. So, I mean, we're just so lucky to have so much of that, like, readily available, it's just figuring out time to cut out the rest of the noise and focus on it.

Brian Charlesworth  25:54
Yeah, I remember a time when I read one or two books a year. And by doing exactly what you just said, I can now get through a book a week, which is amazing. Like just the fact that people have made it so easy for us to do that. And there's so much great content out there.

Zac Muir  26:10
The first thing that you did when I came into this organization, and this set me on a path that I'm still on, is you gave me my first assignment, and you gave me a book, you said, Here's your first assignment, by the way, I want you reading this book, and what book was that? It was be obsessed or be average? And that's an intense one. And it lit a little fire under me. Right?

Brian Charlesworth  26:33
Yeah, that's a great book. That's a Grant Cardone book. And some people are annoyed by that book, and they hate it. But people who are driven absolutely love that book. All right. So now back to the industry. What is really going on in the real estate industry today in your from your perspective?

Zac Muir  26:52
It's totally, I mean, what should have happened 10 years ago is happening. And I think the biggest changes? I mean, if you want to go back to how do you lead your clients? How do you lead them through the biggest purchase of their life? You know, where, you know, their expectations may be all the way up here? Right? And how are we going to align that and make this transaction an absolute win on both sides? And so look at your transactions. How are we setting those expectations? How do we constantly monitor them throughout this journey that they're taking? And how do I make sure that we're delivering an incredible experience, right? And the answer for 99% of real estate operations out there is a couple of emails, and they'll call me if they need something, and it is an absolutely atrocious approach to the most important transaction that they will ever have in their life. Right? And there's so many I mean, DoorDash does a better job of managing this process than most of us in real estate, which is the second you order, you know who your Dasher is, you know, when they're picking up the food, you have an expectation on when it's going to arrive. And you have a button there that I can click if I need to call text or message. It's all right there. And that's for when I'm ordering KFC to my house at three o'clock because you know, I'm hungry. Right? What about when I want to buy a house? Well, these are the experiences that we're creating that needs to be created in real estate.

Brian Charlesworth  28:15
Okay, so the Grit podcast, you know, there's been a lot of we've brought in a lot of people from the industry brought in a lot of team leaders, brought in a lot of CEOs, just different people. But the one thing we haven't really done is spent a lot of time actually talking about CSUN, which in my opinion, CC was having the biggest impact of any software ever in real estate. And Zac, I'd love to get your perspective, your opinion of why Sisu is so important for every team owner or every business owner in real estate today.

Zac Muir  28:45
Yeah. Do you want me to start with the clients or with the agents,

Brian Charlesworth  28:49
Whatever you want this? I just want to I just want to hear your opinion of why Sisu is so important for these team owners business owners.

Zac Muir  28:58
Yeah. So I mean, starting with the client experience, right, the second you go under contract on a home or list your home, right? There are a lot of expectations, dates, deadlines, how are things going to work, and the way that you communicate that and the way that you get in front of communicating that is absolutely everything. Right. So this client portal that we're working on, which you know, a lot of our clients are delivering incredible experiences. And basically what it is, Brian, I don't know how familiar everyone on this podcast will be but the data that you already have in Sisu. So this is very important. It is zero extra work on your staff, right? You are simply providing your buyers or your sellers with a window into the things that you're already managing and the dates that you're already monitoring, right. So if there's a due diligence deadline, and I'm someone who's buying a home and you're my agent, I know exactly when that due diligence deadline is I know what that event means because a lot of people have no idea what that means. And I know what I need to be prepared for, right? And if I have a question, when I pull up these key dates, I've got all the contact information of every single person in the transaction, whether that's the mortgage company, the title company, the home inspection, all of it is right there in one place, the way that I kind of think about it is like, if you go to Disneyland with your kids, and before you go in, you're going to tell them something like, Hey, if we get separated, if you just don't know where to go, we get separated, we're going to meet right here. So you always know if something happens. This is our meeting point, right? And I view this client portal as that home base, hey, if you're just lost, don't know what to do. Come back in here, this will explain everything to you. It'll give you the next steps. And I'll tell you who to talk to next, what's coming. So it's a dramatically different experience than, Hey, watch out for a couple of emails. And, you know, call me if you need anything.

Brian Charlesworth  30:54
Yeah. So that completely changes the client experience, you and I both know that the industry is just starting to know that. So that's super, super vital. Thanks for sharing that. Now. Let's shift gears and go from the client side. Just me owning and operating a real estate business. Why is the suit so important to emphasize, okay, one reason is the client experience, it's completely different experience if you have that. And by the way, I have a listing agent who's a really good listing agent down in Arizona, he just changed and put this client portal into his experience of his listing appointments. And he's signing them all on the spot now, just by adding, hey, this is how we communicate with you. So this will change the industry forever.

Zac Muir  31:41
By the way, go Google it Google biggest complaints about real estate agents and numbers one through five, all in one way or another have to do with communication. Every one of them. It's

Brian Charlesworth  31:51
Yeah. Okay. So make sure you guys do that. Go Google that you might want to do that. While you're listening to this, if you are a place where you can do that. Zac, shifting gears again, what is if I'm running a real estate team? Like why is Sisu so important, in addition to changing that client experience?

Zac Muir  32:10
Yeah. So if you want to go down to the agent level, we, you know, we talked about, you know, we talked about earlier in this podcast, what is it that makes me passionate about being here? What is it that you know, attracts and keeps talent in your world, right. And I believe the best thing that you can do for anyone in your organization is create a winnable game for them create something, where this is why we're so obsessed with sports, as humans, we love sports, because it's so clear what's happening. I know, when I step out on the field, this is what to expect. These are the rules. This is how this happens. This is how I can improve my odds. This is how I can improve my luck, right? And at the end of a, you know, each outing, right? Each round each match, there's a score that tells me how I did and I can take that feedback, and I can come out the next time it show up at a higher level. Right?

Brian Charlesworth  33:02
It's so much that way that we actually enjoy watching sports. Yes, playing them, right?  We don't have to play it. We watch other people being fulfilled on a soccer field or on the golf course. And it's fulfilling to us. And I mean, it's sports, but it's board games, games, all of this right. We love it. We love video games, right? Because it's so clear what's, you know, how do I win? Right? I know how to win. And it's not vague. And so people get discouraged in business, because they don't have that it's so opaque. It's so muddied of like, Am I winning? I don't know, feels like I'm doing a lot of stuff. But I don't see the results. And pretty much all of that can be diagnosed down to not understanding your numbers and not having a clear vision of like, this is where we're trying to go, this is where we're at. And this is what we need to fix. Because if we had that, and a lot of our teams do business is a hell of a lot more fun than even sports are, it can be right. And it's on the leader to create those winnable games. It's on nobody else. So you're saying Sisu gives them the ability to create a winnable game, which in turn makes business fun?

Zac Muir  34:07
Yes, I want to know that, hey, you know, Brian, you're my coach, you're my mentor, look, I want to make $200,000 This year, right? Because I want this, this and this for my family. I'm having my first kid, you know, whatever that scenario is. And we're going to take that, and we're going to turn it into something that I can go out and execute on every single day. And every single day. I know if I'm winning or not if I'm on pace or not. And like it's crazy to me how few salespeople have that and when it's such a powerful thing, right?

Brian Charlesworth  34:35
And I've watched you create that within our sales team as well. Because it is so important. So hopefully this has been super beneficial for everybody. As I listen to Zac, you would never know that he's as young as he is. Because he has a wealth of knowledge. And you know, for those of you who think if you're watching this and you think he's still 21 He's actually 27 Hey,

Zac Muir  35:01
I need Oh, he's 28 a year.

Brian Charlesworth  35:04
Anyway, so so he's approaching the 30 mark. But Zac has had a tremendous amount of experience. It's been great having him here. Before we bounce out of here, Zac, I want people to get to know you a little bit better on a personal side. So one is first year, what is your favorite book you already talked about? You listen to books all the time. So what is your favorite book out there? And maybe list a few because I know you have a lot that have had an impact on you.

Zac Muir  35:27
The one that I read every single year is the alchemist. I love the alchemist. It's an incredible book. And it just speaks to me.

Brian Charlesworth  35:35
It's something you read every year, like something everyone should read. And I have not read that book. So I just put that down. And that's something I'm gonna read. If you read it every year, that's going to be a book that I should at least read once. So great, Zac, what's your favorite place outside of you live in Utah? What's your favorite place to visit

Zac Muir  35:55
My wife and I went to London and Scotland. And I just felt a huge connection there. My ancestors are from Scotland. And that's where the last name comes from. You're and I'm also hopelessly addicted to golf. And that is the birthplace of golf. So I love it out there hoping to get back as soon as possible. I also love Lake Powell. I love wakeboarding. It's one of my passions as well. And I love that when I go to Lake Powell, I don't have phone service. That's a great thing. So  Yeah. Those are two amazing places. For with last name, Charlesworth, obviously, that is a British name. First time I went to London, I felt the exact same thing. Like there were Charlesworth streets, there was Charlesworth building. And anyway, I just felt this huge connection like I was in the place I was supposed to be. Yeah. Anyway. So you might have just answered this question. But what's your favorite thing to do on your personal time, and right now I just I love golfing. I love it. I love that every single time I go out, it's me versus the course. And it's just a challenge of my mental strength. And it's not even about putting up a good score anymore. It's about staying in the entire round. Even when I'm having a bad round. That's when it's most important to me that I stay in it. And to me, I will take a well fought round over a low scoring round anytime, although I do like to score well.

Brian Charlesworth  37:21
That's a great perspective on golf. I don't know that I've ever heard anyone speak about golf that way. But that totally makes sense. And that makes me want to get out on the course more. So thanks for sharing that. Zac. Last thing here is that what is just one piece of really important advice. You could leave with our listeners.

Zac Muir  37:39
Yeah, and this is for me as much as anyone but fall in love with the work. That's everything to me right now.

Brian Charlesworth  37:45
So are you saying I should enjoy the journey versus just look for the outcome?

Zac Muir  37:50
Yep. Exactly. Yeah,

Brian Charlesworth  37:53
That's really great advice. Okay, so Zac, if somebody wants to reach out to you get a hold of you. What's the best way to do that?

Zac Muir  38:00
I'm on LinkedIn. That's a great way Instagram, my handles on everything are just never changed since high school is not the most professional ever, but it's LilRooney, LilRooney. I'm on Instagram, and Facebook, you can find me there. That was my nickname when I was a kid. So  

Brian Charlesworth  38:18
I keep wondering if that's what you're gonna name your son is a little not gonna pry into that right now, but it's gonna be interesting to see. So, everyone, thanks for joining us on another episode of the Grit podcast. We'll catch you on next week's episode. Thanks for joining us today and look forward to seeing you next week. Thanks, Brian. We'll see you.

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